Oxbridge (probably been done to death) extra curricular for personal statements?

[fiveanddime]

Sorry if this has been done a million times

Ds has recently announce he’d like to try for Cambridge after an Oxbridge talk at school. I honestly don’t know how realistic it is. He goes to an ordinary northern comp which has had an occasional child go before but there isn’t anyone in the school who is experienced in applications. I read that the 6th form in London that got a lot of places this year has 5 non teaching staff members dedicated to applications.

He is in y10 doing 10 GCSEs ( one as an independent candidate in his own time) and got 7-9s in his y10 mocks. He is best at essay subjects and can work hard enough/retain information for sciences, language etc.
It’s not unrealistic that he will get 8/9 in the majority of subjects (but so will everyone else who applies I imagine)

Anyway, he doesn’t do anything exciting out of school. One none team sport which he isn’t competitive in. He reads, plays games, visits friends and family and has a part time job etc but no teams, no competitions, no DofE, no interesting travel or holidays. There is time yet as he is only y10, but what sort of thing should he be doing that won’t make it sound like an ad in the personals “I have a GSOH AND enjoy meals in and out, walks in the countryside and the cinema.”

Remember that the people who will be assessing and interviewing him are career academics. They are much more impressed by evidence that the applicant has tried to broaden their knowledge and deepen their understanding, above all by reading and researching areas of their subject that go well beyond the school curriculum.

It's nice to demonstrate a degree of roundedness with one or two interesting non-academic activities, and some candidates will have had extraordinary opportunities to boast of, but if in doubt, concentrate on excelling academically at the subject applied for and you're most of the way there.

p.s. No Oxbridge academic I've ever met has cared a jot about the DofE!

agree with cendrillion. travel/holidays/DofE etc are far less of interest than academic aptitude - so interest in his subject, ability to go beyond the curriculum and the motivation to read around his subject will be more relevant.

Also, if he hasn't had much practice in doing so, get him used to arguing an academic point on a regular basis - with you, a friend, a teacher, a relative, anyone who can develop his ability to defend his ideas robustly in a one-on-one setting. Even if the other person doesn't know the subject in detail, simply being asked 'What evidence can you cite?', 'How did you reach your conclusion?' 'Now argue from the opposite perspective' can be valuable.

They are only looking for the academic potential in the subject he's applying for. The most important thing he can do is to read widely in that subject, well beyond the set A Level texts, and look for relevant work experience/courses to demonstrate his willingness to work independently. For example, he might say at interview, "In class we studied X and that inspired me to go and find out about Y, reading these additional texts, researching the work of Z scientist, going on this course..."

If he's leaning towards STEM, for example, Headstart offer taster courses in lots of STEM-related areas. That kind of thing looks much better in a personal statement than co-curricular activities.

but if relevant work experience/courses aren't logistically/financially feasible - don't worry too much about that - research can be in the non-fiction section of your nearest town/city library, or good quality reputable internet sites.
if he has the study skills/drive to do a gcse as an independent student, then he shouldn't have any problems reading further into his subject(s)

oh and reading a good quality newspaper on a weekly basis is never going to do any harm - he can read the guardian or independent free online.

He shouldn't take up any activity for the sake of university applications, only for enjoyment. There will be heaps of people like him who just do their school stuff and hang out with friends. Also the fact of doing a part time job is a far bigger plus than DoE etc.

On the other hand, a number of top but non Oxbridge unis do quite like
'other activities' so if you're doing an Oxbridge personal statement and you can tip in a few things in short form towards the end it's probably a good thing - it certainly doesn't need to be national level sport, just something, anything!

As pp's have all said, the extra stuff is only important if it is relevant to what he wants to do. We have been to Oxbridge talks, and they all stress that they are supremely uninterested in what potential graduates do in the their spare time, unless it is relevant to the course they wish to apply for.

If Science, get a regular magazine, keep up with developements, if Humanities, see if he can access any free lectures in Museums, or go on visits. Local universities and colleges often run free to go to lectures on various topics. Read, read, read, anything and everything relevant to what he wants to do.

Final piece of advice, choose the course first, not the university. Cambridge may not have the best course for him, why not Oxford, or indeed any other. Course always comes first, then you can crack on with getting in to the one he wants.

Good to know they aren’t interested in what they do in their spare time he’s currently eating ice cream in his pjs.

I don’t know why Cambridge rather than oxford. It’s theology but not sure if it’s the course or something to do with the talk he went to. No idea what work experience he could do (he’s not religious and neither are we) but he reads huge amounts so I guess that’s something.

Ex-Oxbridge tutor here. Honestly, no one gives a shiny shite about extra-curricular stuff. All that tutors want to see is evidence of commitment to the subject. He should read around the subject as much as he can, and think about what he's reading - form opinions, construct arguments. No one would expect work experience for theology.

This is from Oxford rather than Cambridge, but it's a list of resources for people thinking about reading theology; it should be useful for your son wherever he chooses to apply. (Sorry - don't know how to do clicky links!)

www.theology.ox.ac.uk/online-resources

My DD at cambridge put in half a line on extra curriculuar but lots on how she pursued an interest in her subject beyond the
school curriculum.

My dd is currently holding an offer from Oxford (hoping to go in October if all is well with A level results) and her personal statement had one line on her extra curricular stuff - along the lines of “I enjoy singing in the choir, walking in the countryside and going to the cinema”. The rest of it was about extended reading and things directly relevant to the course. They really don’t care if you have grade 8 oboe or a distinction in underwater basket weaving.

My ds did lots of extra curricular stuff at school (and still does now he’s at Oxford - he likes being busy and involved in stuff) but the only real mention he made of it was a bit at the end saying he had learnt to be good at balancing his time and workload to fit everything in. The bulk was all about his interest in his subject.

This is a link to the Theology personal statements on Student room, I hope this helps.
When DD and DS write theirs we looked away examples and sought help from mumsnet ad the school had spent years telling us how important extra curruculars were, turned out that's nonsense!
They both had offers from great universities with no mention of hobbies or part time jobs.
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Category:Theology_Personal_Statements

My DS went to a failing northern comp. He did no extra curricular whatsoever but he did love his subject. He knew about much more than the exam curriculum and was genuinely excited about his subject. He got into Cambridge.

Even though he's only in year 10, he should check out some of the summer courses at Cambridge as there are a couple this year (can't remember if they are for Theology though, sorry, as they are pinned up in my classroom). They have sessions which demystify the application process and tell you what they are looking for.

Each college in Cambridge is associated with a particular region. I live in Devon, so Downing College is "ours". They put on events outside their term time for students, particularly in schools where there is not a production-line of their kids going to Oxbridge. DD's college (not Downing) has put on a number of events and she has been involved in mentoring prospective students, showing them round and talking about her experience. Here is the link for you to check: www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/area-links

Other than that, a demonstrable love or interest in their subject is what they are interested in. Students inevitably include other achievements in their personal statement as they are applying to other courses who perhaps are more interested in them than Oxbridge.

Thanks all. It’s great to hear personal stories. He is good at the reading around the subject and being genuinely interested type thing. My experience of people trying to get onto oversubscribed/difficult/competitive courses has been DofE, grade 8 music, head boy, captain of sports team, chair of debate club. It’s just not him. Forming arguments and genuine interest is him though, which looks like a good thing.

It's a bit of a myth really that any uni is interested in DofE or other extra curricular activities. I think it's a way of arm twisting reluctant teens into activities, particularly popular at private and grammar schools. It's all about the grades.
DSs personal statement was 99% about his subject with maybe a sentence about other things. He got offers from all five unis including Cambridge and Durham.

Slightly subject dependent too. What subject was/ is your DS reading Hortz? Also, there are plenty of achievements which are connected with a subject, despite being 'extra curricular' and some - like DofE - which have nothing to add to a subject at all (not that DofE isn't worth doing, although mine only ever did the expedition because that was the bit they all liked).

I'd say that my DCs' statements were 80% subject related and 20% other and clearly that didn't put off any unis incl Oxbridge, so I don't think there's any set ratio for success.

Ex-Oxbridge admissions here. No, we don't care about extra-curriculars. The exceptions would be vocational subjects (eg. medicine).

In my subject (English Literature), if a student mentioned an extra curricular activity such as going to the theatre or taking part in staging a play, I might ask a question about it, whereas if they mentioned doing DofE, I'd simply ignore it as irrelevant.

I'd also take into account financial/educational privilege. It's easier for some people to access extra curricular activities than it is for others.

The best thing for applicants to do is to see extra curricular activites as a way to deepen and broaden their interest in their subject, not as aims in themselves. IMO.

My experience of people trying to get onto oversubscribed/difficult/competitive courses has been DofE, grade 8 music, head boy, captain of sports team, chair of debate club.

This is really unlikely. I cannot think why these things would matter (unless in terms of a music degree, where I imagine a grade 8 is pretty standard!).

Exactly SarahandQuack. So for Eng Lit staging a play or for Law winning a national moot etc etc or for PPE debating esp relevant subjects. Plenty of extra curriculars are supplementary evidence of interest and aptitude although it's no bad thing ever to do other things eg music and sport just to get away from a subject too - that's healthy and likely to make a student happier and able to concentrate on the subject once at uni.

Better able I should say. On the basie of all work and no play etc.