Oxbridge 2020

[GinWorksForMe]

Is it too early for an Oxbridge 2020 thread? I'm feeling in need of some hand holding through this process...

DS1 is going to apply to Cambridge for Maths. Doesn't know yet whether to name a college or put in an open application, so any tips gratefully received. We have visited two (very different) colleges and been to a Maths Open Day. It's unlikely we're going to have the opportunity to visit many more colleges as their open days seem to be on Saturdays and DS1 has a paid job Saturdays and Sundays.

Anyone else applying for Oxbridge for 2020 entry and want to share the journey?

Hi. So I guess everyone has done/almost done their PS? DD has course work to do, an EPQ to prep a PS to write but has done nothing as yet. She has a weeks summer school a short trip to Spain and a summer holiday lined up so I am not sure how she is going to get it all done
She showed the mini PS she submitted for summer school and I think it was OK - no idea really though since I haven't seen one before - but it seems a really 'odd' document. I was expecting something more like a CV

An Oxbridge PS often reads more like an academic essay than a cv. I think the trick is to say what you have done by presenting your thoughts on things and how it led you to x ... rather than wasting words on I did x then I did y. Dies that make sense ?

bpisok DD has done the admin side of her UCAS form, so all choices, grades etc but hasn't touched her PS. She's going to a festival all next week and away for a couple of others so the summer holidays are ebbing away. I definitely don't think hers will read like an academic essay though and she's certainly intending to put down her extra curricular stuff since the other four choices need to have a nod too. She really likes Durham but isn't going to do a substitute statement, just one for all. I think she's hoping to do it fairly quickly after school starts in Sept.

Glad it's not just DD who hasn't got her act together which is unusual for her since I am Captain Chaos in this family. DD has also shortlisted Durham which I found quite surprising (deep down she's a city girl). I think the final push on the PS can't come until she has 100% decided the course she wants. I think she would like to do them all!!

DS has to hand his first draft PS in first day back. Not a word written!! Although he has done plenty of reading and other supra stuff he has decided he wants to read more around a different topic before he does it in case it is his PS they want to discuss should he get an interview because for some reason all his other reading wasn't enough. He also is packing in reading for his history coursework and carrying out and recording info for his independence investigation in geography. (All this alongside 2 x we, week away with friends to Europe, part time job, been to one festival, still another to go to and has now announced off to North Norfolk next week to stay at a friend's holiday house! I can see the days slipping by whereas he seems to think he still has ages!

DS has done a first draft of his PS and it's been reviewed by his tutor who was broadly happy. He won't let me read it though.

He got back last night from a weeks work experience at a packaging manufacturer. It looked very interesting. They manufacture plastic films and he was working in the lab with the technical team. Really relevant experience for his Chemistry application and for anyone reading this for next year I'd suggest WE as a good (and free) option. The team were very good and had done WE for a number of DC making science applications.

He's settled on his 5 choices - Oxford, Imperial, Durham, Bristol and Manchester. Plus he has chosen his colleges for Oxford and Durham.

So he needs to now read his TSA book, write history coursework and update his PS. Definitely needs to crack on this week as we're on holiday from the 10 to the 24th and move house on the 30th (yikes). Plus he's got pre-season training from the 28th. Obviously he's out playing cricket today and not getting on with anything useful

Goodbye- not trying to steal but....
If it's not academic style how is it structured? Is it along the lines of I am interested in the subject because abc. I have done xyz to increase my knowledge. Out of school I do abc

I haven't seen any real life examples so I am just interested. I think my only input will be her asking me if it makes sense and is spelt correctly

DS has drafted his personal statement and received feedback from a teacher before the end of term. It is focused on Physics, because that's what he is applying for as his other 4 choices.

He has also drafted a supplementary paragraph about why he wishes to apply for the Natural Sciences course (which only Cambridge will see).

DS's school had suggested that the personal statement should have a narrative structure. He took this advice literally (as is his wont) and started writing the story of how his interest in physical sciences has developed over the past ten years. He quickly realised that the result would be 4000 words, not 4000 characters.

In the end, he focused on 3 or 4 ongoing projects/activities he has done through the past year, detailing the aspects of physics he explored and the academic/research skills he developed.

Most of the related reading he has done and the lectures he has attended did not make the cut.

bpisok I'd say that that's pretty much spot on. I've seen all my DCs' personal statements and I think there's some merit in being pretty straightforward. I personally find the idea of 'making yourself stand out' a bit wearing so I'd assume what might appeal to one tutor won't appeal to another. The personal statements should really almost wrote themselves, if there's a genuine interest in a subject and an aptitude for it. I also think that the statement should be polite enough to be directed across all choices, not merely targeting Oxford (which still doesn't have the additional statement facility as far as I know - they were going to introduce it but not sure when).

Almost write! And not have typos like that!

Goodbye that's encouraging. I think the 'making your self stand out' approach is very American. I think she will also really struggle with the word limit so the editing is going to have to be brutal. Perhaps the trick is to tie as many examples of supra curricula to each point?
Not sure if she knows about the extra PS for Durham - I will get her to check. Do any other Unis do this?

DS was aiming for 80% about the subject, 20% on extra-curricular, but on each draft the extra curricular is getting nibbled away.

Just glancing through this thread.

My DS received all five of his offers for law fro 2019 -Oxford, Durham, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen (we're Scottish). His PS was 100% academic. He had the advantage, however, of applying with his GCSE equivalent grades AND his Highers which may have given them more of an accurate picture of his academic potential.

I reckon the difference between a 100% academic statement and a 80/20 or 70/30 one is marginal, on the grounds that while a personal statement may be used as a jumping off point at interview, the reality is that for Oxford it barely makes a dent compared to school reference, grades and aptitude test scores - and so there's every reason to tilt wards the other four unis.

You have a point Goodbye in that for Oxbridge it is only one element among many. But I would suggest that (US universities and perhaps Durham excepted) the extra curricular stuff is becoming less significant for other Universities too and they are all now much more interested in why you want to do their course and what you have done to explore that. Even Durham which is rumoured to be interested in extra curricular have an extra ps you can use to laid that on

The US Unis that DD looked at last year have an odd system where they give you specific essays to write/short and long answer questions. So although there's a PS element it's not like the UK. There's also sections on the application for where you enter your hobbies and work experience and the number of hours you have done for each. Not sure whether it's the same at all Unis. There seems to be 2 routes - a common entrance form plus Uni specific OR Uni specific. You pay for each application to each Uni.
...she decided against it.

Yes Oratory I suppose since all of my DC except one had Durham as a choice I'm possibly meaning Durham. No-one who could use the substitute statement (it's fairly recent) chose to do so. It seems rather a double edged sword to me, and if you can wrap it all up in one universal statement - what's not to like?

As far as Oxford goes, I think it's a very limited element. One of my DD's was told by the interviewing tutor that hers was the most (perhaps one of the most) interesting statements he'd ever read - but it wasn't 'academic' as such so he must have meant the subject related things that she'd done.

I really just mean that there's no set formula - it can be whatever the applicant wants to make of it. Hence 'personal'. I've advised DD (as I advised all the others) not to look at any other sample statements at all, just to write it straight out with no reference to anything else or anyone else's.

There are a number of PS on TSR with places applied to and offers received. Once you have read a few you can usually predict fairly accurately which ones get which offers (for humanities at least). All the unis (admittedly all RG) that we went to open days with DD admissions talks seem to be going down the "supra not extra" routes now. And also said do not list the books/moocs/lectures/tv shows etc but explain why they were of interest or engaged you. Yes, it should be students own words etc and their own thoughts but when there is very clear guidance about nlt listing, not using inspirational quotes etc it would be a brave applicant to disregard such advice from the unis they aspire to.

If there is the chance of 'extra' word space such as the additional statement or the supplementary questionnaire for Cambridge make best use of it as others will!

That's really interesting goodbye

Again, not trying to steal but how did she make it so different? Had she simply taken a very different route to expanding her knowledge? Did she reach a unique/insightful conclusion to her studies?

Nothing to do with this thread but it reminds me of when DD answered the question 'Who was responsible for the dissolution of the monasteries?' and she wrote a long and credible piece (backed up by lots of historical research) blaming the Pope....not because she believed it, but because she thought it would be more of a challenge and would give her teacher something more interesting to read!!

Indicative it's a very different thing reading the website advice for each of the chosen unis and reading sample statements on TSR.

Also, it's not possible to tell whether an applicant gets a place because of the personal statement or in spite of it.

bpisok I'm about to climb a very large Scottish hill so while I'm doing that (and lagging behind) I'll think what I can answer without being too explicit!

Enjoy the hill- if that's even possible!!!

The only absolute rule DDs school imposed re the PS was to prohibit the word 'passion'.. IIRC hers was a sort of narrative of how her interest in the subject had developed, with a brief mention of a couple of extra curricular activities at the end but with a nod to what she'd learned from them in a 'character building' type of way.
The Cambridge supplement was used to explain why despite the main ps being all about electronics, she'd really like to do gen eng if but only if it was the Cambridge version of 'generalise then specialise'. I think that's the sort of situation where it's useful, if the Oxbridge course content is different from the other choices.

bpisok thanks - the hill was fab. No midges today!

Having tried to recall the seven personal statements I find I can't in detail but I think it's fair to say that none have gone for anything I could describe as particularly (remotely?) insightful. With this particular DD, she had done quite a spread of interesting history related things I suppose, and I'd expect the thing the tutor was referring to in particular was to do with her Art (she took Art, History and English), and the way she interpreted the theme set for the final exam. I think that was where the discussion went in the interview anyhow.