Oxbridge 2020

[GinWorksForMe]

Is it too early for an Oxbridge 2020 thread? I'm feeling in need of some hand holding through this process...

DS1 is going to apply to Cambridge for Maths. Doesn't know yet whether to name a college or put in an open application, so any tips gratefully received. We have visited two (very different) colleges and been to a Maths Open Day. It's unlikely we're going to have the opportunity to visit many more colleges as their open days seem to be on Saturdays and DS1 has a paid job Saturdays and Sundays.

Anyone else applying for Oxbridge for 2020 entry and want to share the journey?

Hi wicked it’s me again!!! Dd also thinking of applying to Oxford for maths depending on higher results. She has been doing the Cambridge step online stuff which Oxford recommend in prep for the Mat. She did a mat paper at home and her score although not well up there would likely have been borderline interview which she was happy with at this stage. It is doable but is a bit of work and she is working through the early chapters of the AH course which is helpful.

Just back from the Open Day at Cambridge. DD still loves the course (HSPS), toured library, sample lecture, went to the museum. Colleges - we looked round Pembroke, Caius and Fitzwilliam. Then lost the will to .... do anything further in the heat. We will go to see two other universities where courses interest her but she seems set on Cambridge now. Worries me as her mocks indicate grades that would potentially get her in but...

HSPS is a great course. DS was seriously interested but I think he’ll go for Oxford now.

@howwudufeel interesting - what made him decide on Oxford instead?

I think the city would suit him better. I didn’t go with him to the Oxford open day (he went for a couple of days with his college) but he realised that, as much as he liked Cambridge, Oxford offered him more. The HSPS course is brilliant though and he was fixed on that for a long, long time.

Howwudufeel - is he not doing HSPS now and if not what subject does he fabour now?

*favour

I will PM you if that’s OK?

Yes of course

@Arewedone

Using LSE as a fall back can be risky. A lot depends on subject. Law, Accountancy, economics, Finance, International Relations, PPE etc will be very oversubscribed. Only about a quarter of LSE students are from the UK, and in many places the LSE is seen as just as prestigious, if not more. Even in the UK, LSE may be preferred by Londoners, ethnic minorities or others wondering whether they would "fit" at Oxbridge, and those seeking degrees with particular slants: urban geography, international law, mathematical economics etc.

DS read economics, which is very competitive. The good advice he was given was to apply for the four "top" courses (Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick) and accept any he was offered, and if he was was not offered any, to take a gap year and reapply. He was rejected by UCL, Warwick and Cambridge but got an offer from LSE at the end of March. He knows someone who received four rejections first time round, but a Cambridge offer, and LSE rejection, on reapplication. DS was a strong applicant (five A levels including FM and a humanity with a 4xA* prediction, plus a language at the equivalent of AS and a genuine interest in his subject) but there are plenty of other strong applicants out there, including from overseas.

LSE also recruit in a different way. They don't interview, so the PS becomes very important. They will be fishing from the same pool of well qualified students, but inevitably will select different applicants. Our observation is that those successful at Cambridge tended to be more confident, so presumably better at interview.

Which university provides the better education will be partly down to fit. DS is absolutely absorbed in his subject (he has just finished the first year of a PhD at a good US University) and found plenty of soul mates, both on his course but also amongst other UGs and PGs. The student population is scattered which ironically means that a lot of the social life is centred on the campus and he belonged to several societies and played in a casual 7 a side league. He does not drink, and clubbing did not seem to dominate student social life. I don't think he would have attended May Balls or have stepped foot inside a punt, so there was not a sense he was missing anything.

His education was fantastic, and if starting again I think he would consider LSE as his top choice. There was lots of scope to flex his course to match his interests, lots of supra-curricular stuff available, good academic pastoral care, including academics who went out of their way to support keen UGs, write references, even picking up the phone to support PhD applications. He was offered a place at Oxford for his Masters but saw no reason to move. Over half of his Masters coursemates seem to have gone on to PhDs and his LSE alumni network seems to now stretch across most major economics departments in the US.

That said, DS knew several who would have been more comfortable on a campus like Warwick. LSE is urban and you need to be a self starter, but for the right student it can be a fantastic learning experience.

Thanks peaseblossom

needmore thank you so much your post is incredibly insightful. DS is very much a self starter with predicted 4A* incl fm. hoping to study economics. It’s perplexing as to why his school is steering him away from LSE and towards Oxbridge and St Andrews. LSE does seem quite incredible and yet his school don’t want to recognise it. Quite possibly the incredibly low offer rate is the reason. We live in London so the urban off campus living wouldn’t be an issue.

needmore missed to say your DS sounds quite incredible

Arewedone - I suspect it is the low offer rate even for incredibly able students. They will want him to apply to RG and get 5 RG offers so their stats are boosted when they say we got 500 RG offers (if cohort was 100) for example.

We are in London which does make it easier. One of DS' close friends was taking a gap year and another was at Imperial, so there was a gradual transition from school to University social life. The very international culture was also not such a big step as it might have been for students from elsewhere. DS's friends were a complete mix of home and overseas, white and BAME, state and private. The common denominator was a keen interest in economics.

A strong applicant should aim high. For students who have always excelled, there is advantage in facing your first rejection whilst still at home. There will be plenty of rejection to come, and if you don't try you will never succeed. LSE, or indeed Oxbridge, is only one line on the form.

A major cause of problems with LSE economics is that it is very mathematical, but an A* prediction in FM suggests your son would be fine. The second year contains a lot of technical courses, and seems to be the year less-mathematical students are most likely to have to repeat, but the third year allows for a huge range of options to suit most interests.

I am surprised that St Andrews is being pushed. It would be a huge cultural jump, if nothing else. The courses I mentioned are generally regarded as providing the best technical preparations, should your son want to keep doors open for research, either within a bank or consultancy, or in academic/public sector. My observation is that more academic London private schools are gradually switching from "leave London" to "consider LSE, UCL and Imperial over Universities like Bristol". Partly because it seems to be getting harder to get an offer from Oxbridge, especially in those subjects where there is strong competition from International students so London offers a good academic alternative, and partly because schools seem to be picking up problems in some hither-to fall backs.

LSE guarantees hall accommodation to all students. DS's only came through in August, but then we live within walking distance. He was initially very keen to get away and make the full step into independence, but eventually, like many of his peers, drifted back into living at home, which was a lot cheaper. The LSE library is open 24 hours and there is a lot going on on campus, so we did not see much of him, even then. Oddly I think he found LSE a bigger change from his (Hogwarts-like) Independent school than he would have found Oxbridge, something he welcomed. Both DC see one advantage of not going to Oxbridge being the chance to branch out and make new friends from different backgrounds.

A lot will be about fit. If he loves St Andrews he probably would not like LSE. And vice-versa.

Arewedone - he was good but never particularly outstanding which is presumably why he was rejected by Warwick and UCL. But he found his subject and his place and has gone from strength to strength. I doubt the opportunities he had at LSE could have been bettered anywhere else in Europe.

"They will want him to apply to RG and get 5 RG offers so their stats are boosted when they say we got 500 RG offers (if cohort was 100) for example."

Although arewedone's dc's school is encouraging him to apply to Oxbridge which also has a low ish acceptance rate (not sure if it is lower than LSE's for economics though!). And St Andrews would not be a 'recruiter' either - my impression is that it isn't one of the univs that basically offer a place to anyone with the predicted grades?

Arewedone, I suspect it would be quite difficult to write a PS that covers Oxford PPE whilst expressing a genuine interest in LSE's brand of technical economics. There are lots of reasons why someone might want to study PPE. However pure economists would normally opt for Cambridge, at least at UG level. UCL and Warwick, the other alternatives, are also extremely competitive and, as they dont interview, rely heavily on PS.

What is he interested in? If PPE, why does he not apply for PPE at LSE (I think UCL also offers it). The LSE degree is four years so should allow for both breadth and depth.

If alternatively he wants to make the most of his maths, why not apply for Cambridge, and the other more mathematical courses, take a deep breath and hope he gets one. It is common for specialist economists to take a Masters. These courses probably provide the best preparation

Hello! Dd has decided finally to participate in this madness after Law day at Pembroke this week. I was working so didn’t go with her, was anyone in the parent sessions and willing to let me know what I missed, please?

Needmoresleep that's really interesting. Is there any scope for them to live in after the first-year?

I didn’t go to any parent talk so can’t help - but would be interested if anyone else did and can share what was said.

Pembroke Oxford or Pembroke Cambridge?

Devon, sorry, I should have said guaranteed for all first year.

That said there is now a huge quantity of intercollegiate private student accommodation which serves as a fall back, providing second and third years are willing to pay, and vacancies do arise through the year. DS was lucky because he had friends in the year above, staying in the same flat for their third year, who had a spare room. The great thing about London is that the transport is so good, and I am not convinced it is a whole lot more expensive than, say, Bristol. Crossrail when it finally opens, will open up some really quite cheap places.

I also realise that Arewedone's DS is probably applying for E&M (which was always rumoured to be the hardest Oxford course to get onto). However the same point remains. It would be hard to write a PS saying how keen you are on management and hope it passes muster with highly competitive pure economics degrees. Better to look at UCL's management offerings.

My understanding is that UCL and Imperial also guarantee first year accomodation, but not Kings or QMUL.

Don't worry, I assumed that was what you meant. Even in my day, the thought of trying to get accommodation in London was off putting. Privately owned blocks of studios seem to be springing up everywhere, but as many of them cost from £150 to over £200 per week outside of London with no scope to sub-let outside of term time, they seem to be the preserve of the wealthy overseas students.

LSE management degrees have always had a strong economics slant & with a careful choice of options it is possible to get the best of both worlds. That way a PS appropriate for E & M could also fit LSE. It depends how important the name of the degree is too you, as it's largely irrelevant yo the rest of the world on graduation, especially if a transcript of your modules is available.