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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Does anyone regret going to Oxbridge?

31 replies

staropramen · 15/04/2019 21:18

I have a Ds in first year at Oxford. He's finding the workload tough. Whilst he is enjoying it, he says he is often miserable during term time due to lack of time to breathe. The terms are so hectic that he doesn't get a great deal of chance to just take a Saturday off.

Many of his friends in first year at other prestigious universities really seem to be enjoying themselves and plenty of time to just chill out and enjoy being young. They get to relish the moment.

I was wondering, does anyone else regret going to Oxbridge? Or perhaps, is this something that will pass for ds.

OP posts:
Decorhate · 16/04/2019 07:13

I think it’s very common to have some doubts. My dd’s boyfriend was on the verge of packing it in at the end of the first term - the workload, the fact that his friends at other unis were having a better social life, just like your son is feeling. He was a boy who had always been top of his class at school so perhaps for the first time was having to work harder & harder to keep up.

He decided to stay on but cut himself some slack - be happy with a B rather than an A in his essays eg (or whatever mark scheme they use at Oxford).

I do think students have to accept that the Oxbridge experience is very different to other unis and work out for themselves if that is what they want. They don’t always consider this at the start in the excitement of getting a place.

Another student there found the social side diminished even more in 2nd year within her class as everyone was working so hard - she joined a sports club & socialised there.

bengalcat · 16/04/2019 07:16

Shorter terms so more to cram in and of course some courses have Saturday ‘classes’ too - it’ll only be for 3 - 4 years and worth it in the long run . Hopefully he’ll get used to it and enjoy .

MullofKintire · 16/04/2019 07:34

Sorry to hear your DS is finding it tough. But he needs to remind himself that he would not be there unless he was a clever young man who could manage the work.

Has he looked at his time management skills? What time does he get up in the morning? Getting up at 630/645 gives you two extra working days a week compared with students who get up at 0900. How much reading is he able to do during the vacations? He should be working prettty much full time during the Christmas and Easter vacations - revising work done and preparing for the following term. That takes a huge amount of stress off term time work (I realise this is easier for some subjects than others).

Is he too much of a perfectionist? There is “perfect” and there is “good enough” for many pieces of work and the extra time put into making something perfect is rarely justified.

Does he allow himself to be interrupted too often by friends popping in? Has he learned how to send people away? Close his door etc. Working in libraries can sometimes mitigate this risk. How good is he at personal admin, multi tasking, forward planning. Making a list of what he needs to achieve each week and planning when he is going to do what and sticking to it ( more or less!)

I think some students are quicker than others at developing these skills. But the bottom line is that he should be able to do his course work, socialise and fit in at least one other activity (sport, music, JCR rep etc) during term time. Acquiring these skills is part of the University experience.

Ivegotthree · 16/04/2019 07:37

I failed Oxbridge and went to another uni considered the next best thing and had a WHALE of a time. Meanwhile my friends at Oxford were miserable as they said all they did was work work work. They also pointed out what a high number of work-mad geeks there were, whereas I was surrounded by really fun people mostly intent on having fun and doing the bare minimum to get a good degree.

My best friends are mostly from uni and not getting into Oxford was the best thing that happened to me - wish I'd known that at the time!

SilentSister · 16/04/2019 12:30

DD went to Oxford and this is not something she would recognise. Yes, of course, the workload is high, and intense, and she was in STEM so labs and projects to complete too. But, I have to say, she also went out a lot, clubbing, pubbing, college socials, and these were all very late at night/early morning. She produced some drama productions, rowed for a year, and also went away for weekends with her DP, we went up a couple of times a year, and she came home a couple of times too. So, she had a great time, and didn't feel she missed out at all. Sorry, not terribly helpful, but perhaps just an indication that it doesn't have to be all work and no play, and perhaps your DS just needs to settle a bit more, find his feet, and a crowd he can socialise with. I think it took DD a couple of terms before she really got to grips with it all.

Sculpin · 16/04/2019 12:36

Cambridge was quite a challenge for me, in that I was used to being top of the class and getting results in the lower half took a bit of getting used to. As someone else said, the terms are shorter than other universities and therefore quite intense!

It seems a pity to drop out / transfer for this reason though - unless he is really miserable. My degree has been very useful to me in later life.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 16/04/2019 12:46

I totally get what you are saying OP; my DD2 has gone to Trinity in Dublin. She is finding it a massive step up and feels she has a much bigger workload and has to meet higher standards than friends at high ranking UK universities. Plus degree grade inflation seems to not have happened in Ireland; loads of people still get the dreaded 2.2s.

At least your DS will get the kudos that comes with Oxford for all his efforts. Unless DD stays in Ireland, then perhaps she will not.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/04/2019 12:52

I nearly packed it in and have always been glad I stuck it out.
How's his mental health though? Please make absolutely sure there isn't something deeper going on than 'finding the workload tough' and make it clear you will support him no matter what he does.
Be careful about passing on advice like getting up at 6.30. If he is already working hard this will just make him feel shit for not working even harder.
He needs to get the message that it is OK to do it his way - you don't HAVE to have a brilliant social life and get a first and shine in extracurricular activities. And it is vital to get a break occasionally. Tell him to take Saturdays off sometimes even if it means his essay won't be quite as good as it would be if he spent the day in the library.
You do have to work hard at Oxbridge and it sometimes takes a while to find the balance between scraping by and working yourself into the ground.

Moominmammacat · 16/04/2019 14:50

My DH does, narrow syllabus and self doubt brought on by the public school brayers, he says. My DSs (RG not Oxbridge) had some friends round recently and one of the Oxbridge ones said he would prefer to eat his own arm off than redo his course. Mine are still in love with their subjects. Fantastic for some, not for all. Bit like everywhere else ...

SarahAndQuack · 16/04/2019 15:08

It's definitely normal to have some doubts. But there should be a lot of support available. He ought to be able to talk to his personal tutor, as well as to his supervisors. Sometimes, I think (at all universities) there can be a culture of almost competitive struggle, where a lot of students work unhealthy hours (or in an unhealthy pattern) and make a virtue of it.

I wonder if he'd find he could take a Saturday off if he set himself different work patterns? Of course it's not always possible, depending on deadlines. But it's easy to feel that if you've been set this essay, or that set of problems to solve, you must do it obsessively. I think a lot of students don't learn where to stop, because at A Level they simply stopped when they had completed the task, or do the work to their satisfaction. But one of the things about university (and esp. Cambridge) is that you're generally not set work that you will complete to satisfaction. You have to get used to packing it up and saying 'this is good enough for now'. Oddly enough, sometimes students who learn this skill actually produce better work than those who frantically keep going right up to the deadline, because they learn when to stop thinking and start tidying up their thoughts to get them into a fit state to hand in.

I digress a bit. I do, on and off, regret going to Cambridge, but I think that's partly because my college was going through a patch of being appallingly pressured/unethical. And it's ancient history now.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/04/2019 15:24

My DD seems to be managing a good work/life balance. She's doing engineering so it's a busy timetable in 'full term', but still manages to do a reasonable amount of socialising. (Rowing was too much of a time commitment though, after trying it for a couple of terms)

TBH I don't think she's got significantly more workload than DH and I had on our chemistry degrees back in the 80s.

DD and many of her pals stay there for some time outside of full term, and do a lot of socialising then. Obviously it depends on room contract - first year was 30 week but she's got 39 week contract this year and next year. So, she came home for 5 days pure R&R this vac (hillwalking mostly) and then went back to paced revision plus fun (eg a bunch of them went to see the Boat Race).

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/04/2019 15:43

Sarahandquack talks sense.

tomhazard · 16/04/2019 15:47

I didn't go but a relative of DH did. She had a great time but wishes she hd gone to imperial instead because the teaching was shoddy and inconsistent in her subject.

She obviously has a super job now - it opened many doors for her - but she does say that she thinks she'd have got better teaching at one or two other top science unis.

HedgeSparrow · 16/04/2019 15:55

I do and I don't. In retrospect it was a big leap socially for me (non-typical background) and I drank very heavily to cope with that. In doing so however I met some great people I'm still in touch with years later. We were forged together in a furnace and I think they will always be my friends.

I studied an arts subject so there was hardly any structured time, which can be detrimental to your mental health. However the system for those types of subjects rewards those who are bright and think differently, and not just hard workers. I managed a 2:1 working about 3 days a week. But the pressures manifested themselves in other ways and it is not the healthiest or most straightforward of environments.

Looking back now I see it taught me to think on my feet and bullshit authoritatively, which has served me well professionally. This is definitely a skill you can pick up there, but again not necessarily a healthy one, especially when you look at the impact on the way our political class operates.

riotlady · 16/04/2019 15:57

Yes and no. I had some wonderful experiences and met some amazing people, but it’s a high stress environment and mental health services both at the university and in Oxford generally are very poor. I had a breakdown (related to personal trauma, not work stress, although I’m sure that didn’t help) and I was really not supported at all.

I did 3 years there then my last year at Newcastle, and am now doing a masters at Northumbria. I have to say, it is still a wonderful novelty to me to have lecturers that can use email and a library you’re allowed to eat in!

riotlady · 16/04/2019 16:01

I should add that the workload at Oxbridge is absolutely a different kettle of fish to the workload at other very good universities. Newcastle is not at all shabby for my subject and I was doing 3-4 essays a term there, as compared to 2 essays (plus translations and other work) a week at Oxford. I’ve heard similar things from other friends who left and who went on to other good unis- York, UCL, etc.

HedgeSparrow · 16/04/2019 16:14

Yes, when I say to people who went to a RG university I had to write 2 essays a week on a completely new topic, each with a reading list of 20-30 books or articles, with no relevant lectures to attend and no contact time other than the tutorial whereby you had to read said essay aloud to the tutor (sometimes one to one), they look at me as though I'm mad. It's not for everyone.

bevelino · 16/04/2019 21:17

I have a dd at Oxford who is studying the same subject as her one of her sisters at Bristol and Oxford dd is finding it tough watching her sister at Bristol working hard but having more time to relax and have fun.

Dd at Oxford had a much higher workload than her sister (in her first year), but feels she was no further forward in terms of her understanding of the subject. It is quite tricky as she is happy generally at Oxford and has no regrets, but a trip to Bristol to see her two sisters who are studying there and seeing all the extra stuff they are able to do is challenging for her at times.

Dancingdreamer · 16/04/2019 23:23

Did your son have a busy life before Oxford? My DD has always been busy. She did sport to an elite level when younger and had long days - often on the go from 6:30am until 10pm and then training or competing at the weekend. She then went to boarding school for 6th form where she was kept very busy with long days and weekend commitments. She is now at Oxford doing a STEM subject. She has found Oxford busy and intense but no worse then her life when competing or away at school. She has coped because she learnt how to be resilient under pressure because of her experiences when younger. She feels that a lot of students do find the step up hard at first because they have never experienced such an intense lifestyle. I do think however, most learn to cope and I do hope your DS does too.

Needmoresleep · 17/04/2019 08:46

I should add that the workload at Oxbridge is absolutely a different kettle of fish to the workload at other very good universities.

I hate this sort of comment. Do people really think that those bright motivated DC who narrowly miss Oxbridge places then lose their commitment to their subject.

It may be fair to say that the teaching approach elsewhere is different and possibly less structured, so a student is more able to organise themselves. Longer terms also help. So DS had two 12 week terms at the LSE followed by one six week "exam" term. He also sat four of the eight exams that count towards his final degree, at the end of his second year. He did not write anywhere near the same number of essays (economics) but he and his friends worked steadily throughout his three years, and I don't think many would argue that they covered less ground or that their degrees have less international prestige than the Oxbridge equivalents.

DS went to a super selective independent, where close to half his peers will have gone to Oxbridge, and many of the rest to London or other well regarded Universities. He was surprised, meeting up at the first Christmas, that many had not enjoyed their first term, though without a discernible pattern. Oxbridge students were not less or more happy than those who had gone elsewhere. There were also different reasons. Disinterested supervisor, work pressure, social etc. A couple including one at Oxbridge switched Universities at the end of the first year and thrived elsewhere. A friend from overseas might have been less socially isolated at Imperial. DS does not like writing essays but loves his subject and is good at organising himself to achieve a good work life balance, so he was happy and if starting again would almost certainly opt for LSE of Cambridge.

And echoing what Bevelino says, DD is at Bristol (medicine) having opted not to apply to Oxbridge or any of the BMAT schools. It is a completely different course, with additional placements in the summer vacation, longer terms and patient contact from the first week. She talks about situations she has come across which have left an impression, rather than about essays or biochemistry, and will almost certainly end her preclinical years with better communication skills, but perhaps less science, than she would have had she gone to Oxbridge. Which is better? Which is "working harder"? Who knows. She likes the patient side of medicine so her course suits her better, and she will probably take a year out to intercalate in something quite scientific, so should, like her brother, end up in more or less the same place as her Oxbridge peers, albeit by a route that suits her better.

HedgeSparrow · 17/04/2019 09:14

@needmoresleep - I don't disagree and I'm certainly ambivalent about the benefits of the Oxbridge system. But I think you have possibly misunderstood the comment about the workload - my experience (and bear in mind I work at a RG University now) is that students elsewhere of course have a lot of work to do and work hard, but there is something about the way the workload is structured at Oxbridge which makes it part of the 'test' of whether you are good enough or not. Sink or swim. As someone said above, this is also reflected in poor mental health support and may not result in such a 'rounded' experience as the one you describe. I'm not necessarily defending this approach but it does have some merits. It also favours students of the background described by @dancingdreamer. In my experience state school students are not discriminated against at interview but can find it more difficult to make the most of the opportunity once they are there.

Needmoresleep · 17/04/2019 10:13

Ahh, more areas of agreement then. As well as being very used to being surrounded by very very able peers so not intimidated, both mine were used to being busy. Busy as in 5 A levels apiece whilst DD managed being a sports captain, a prefect, county level sports training and playing for a competitive adult sports club, on top of volunteering and having a social life. Some of her peers who went to Oxbridge seem to have maintained the same in choirs, boats, Footlights and the Union. One of DS' peers seems to have been in a University boat for all four years of his STEM degree, and others have been no less impressive in terms of the range of things they have been able to achieve. That school training in organisation has helped and continues to help. Runs for cover as I prepare to be shot down.

DD was certainly in a position to have a crack at Oxbridge. Perhaps she was lucky in that she already had exposure to, and completely enjoyed, that sort of high paced juggling, but felt she did not need it for what is essentially a vocational degree. (DS did try and was rejected, but the LSE course suited him more and since he was completely uninterested in the punting/May Ball stuff saw the advantages.) She also hates writing essays. Talking about it now, she has no regrets at all. She likes her placements and the camaraderie both with peers and NHS staff, and there is a good chance she would not have enjoyed the very different Oxbridge approach.

That said Oxbridge is obviously brilliant for many. Even those who find the first year tough, may well go on to learn how to balance it all and have the time of their lives, with the confidence and life skills that go with it. I guess it is about being realistic about Oxbridge. It is not the be-all and end-all and other routes will suit others better.

TulipFever · 17/04/2019 10:23

What SarahandQuack and MullofKintire said.

Time management — saying ‘this essay is as good as I can make it now, and I’m going out’ — dealing with my own inner perfectionist, and reading in the vac was key for me.

And some friends decided early on to work well within their capacity and aim for a 2.1 rather than the First they could have managed if they’d severely curtailed social life and extracurricular/ society/sports commitments.

HedgeSparrow · 17/04/2019 10:29

"It is not the be-all and end-all and other routes will suit others better".

Totally. It's also an approach which works better for some subjects than others in my opinion. Modern languages being a good example, with its focus on learning via studying the canonical literature.

VanCleefArpels · 17/04/2019 17:00

This is where social media is really negative. I went to Cambridge 30+ years ago and because we didn’t know any different just got on with it: worked really hard, but managed “some” social life/sport etc. Had we been able to monitor on a daily basis what our school friends were doing at other universities we might have realised how different/hard our situation was. But, as I say, we didn’t know that this wasn’t a “normal” student experience!