A-levels for History at Oxbridge

[chopc]

My son is a keen history student and plans to study that at University. Sitting GCSE's thus summer. His AL choices were Maths, Economics, History and English.

However he is also a keen musician and would like to swap English to Music.

So he will then have two non facilitating subjects (Economics and Music)
Would this matter when applying for Russel Group Unis including Oxbridge?

Any advise will be appreciated

That wouldn't be a problem. Oxford is very open minded about subjects, far more so than many other unis, though I don't know about Cambridge. History, Economics and Music would be a very interesting mix. That said, his GCSEs and his aptitude test will be the key thing.
DD2 did History, English and Art (Art, not History of Art), and another DC of mine did History, Physics and Geography which is relatively unusual for History.

Entry requirements for all uni courses are listed on their websites and are easily searched for.

My biggest concern with that subject choice is the time needed for 4 subjects when one involves performance. Music could easily be kept up as a hobby instead.

Both of those two also got History offers for Durham, Bristol, St Andrews etc (I'm not going to split hairs about RG!).

Sounds fine although I think English is a facilitating subject and music is not but that doesn't matter as he has maths and history (and economics is well regarded anyway). My son recently dropped music after AS (he did 4 AS exams 2 years ago but I think people are not doing them now) and kept on history. (At the time he was choosing which of economics or music to drop - hard decision).

Another son gave up music after one term of A level and swapped to English but that was just because he wasn't enjoying the music course.

Thanks all for your responses. Yes will have a chat with him again. Music does take a lot of time but he will be spending a lot of time on music anyway as he already plays two instruments and wants to add a third one as he feels he missed out by not learning an orchestral instrument.

I mis-read. He's doing four not three. There's even less of a problem!

BringOnTheScience in some cases you need to be a bit wary about what's required officially (ie stated on the website) and what can be a problem for admissions if you don't have it (and aren't properly exceptional).

Maths + History may be good for entrance to LSE if that takes his fancy. ( DS accepted for History for Oxford & 3 others but turned down from LSE.

If he wants to do History would he consider swapping the Economics for English. I do think English is good if you want to study an essay based degree ( but but but I am not an admissions tutor) also if he changes his mind and wants to do something more economics based DS was always advised at A Level Maths more useful / ell regarded than Economics & he will have the Maths.

Anecdote alert.

Funny one sbpuld worry about taking an A level which is pretty labour intensive, when the two universities with the most lintense term time workloads are under discussion. If music at that level is 'what you do' anyway, then it's going to be very little different for that particular student than any other subject and a lot less of a strain than a more 'acceptable' one that s/he has less interest in or aptitude for.

I think eventually he will go into law. But genuinely loves history as a subject. History is also essay based. I don't think you will need more than one. Will need to look at the requirements again.

I was more concerned about two non facilitating subjects if he does Maths, History, Economics and Music.

Even for those who worry about 'non facilitating' subjects you don't need to worry about how many of those you're doing you could do dozens - it's the number of facilitating subjects you're left with which apparently matters, and which is his case is two - completely fine by any measure.

Economics A-level is IMO less interesting in terms of building lifelong skills than A-level English. And, tbh, the knowledge gained at A-level Economics is quickly picked up later on by doing a bit of reading.

I did history and English (and German) for law but any of the combinations talks about above are fine. Plenty of lawyers do a lot of music. In fact after 139 applications and 25 interviews I do wonder if I got my training contract at very very long last because I ended up talking about Cathedral choirs (the person interviewing had a siblngs who rang a choirs festival)

Thank you all! Appreciate the advise and opinions

Two current students I know with Oxbridge offers for history have the following combos:

Camb - history, gov/pol and economics
Ox - history, English and maths.

Does he have to take 4?

Personally I'd encourage him to pick English.

History at Oxbridge requires a huge amount of reading and, to a lesser extent, essay writing and I think developing those skills as much as possible is important.

If he's able enough for Oxford keeping up his music as a hobby alongside a fairly full academic schedule should be perfectly possible.

I think the focus shouldn't just be on what is "acceptable" in terms of subject choice, but on maximising his chances and really trying to push himself.

Me too - I think Eng, history and one other out of maths or econ with music as a hobby/grades.

For history I’d encourage English as opposed to Economics or maths. Music is highly regarded as an academic subject.

Facilitating subjects only matter if you don’t know what your degree is going to be or might change your mind.

As long as you meet the entry requirements which for Oxford is having A Level history, it matters not what the other A levels are.

I think maths and economics would be useful when it comes to economic history and would certainly give him an interesting angle when it comes to interview/PS.

Maths is always a good subject. If it were my child, I would be encouraging History, English, Maths and Music.

Without knowing how good he is at any of these things - I would just say out of the 4 he has 2 facilitating subjects - so keep those two ( History and Maths) Other than that I would say Economics A level might be a bit of a thing which if he is very good maths he could do without .

If it helps Ds did History at Oxford and is pursuing Law - the success of which we still need to see - doing GDL ) He did History, English & Theology and Philosophy at A Level ( BUT only 3 A levels ) . So 2 facilitating subjects and all essay based. If your son has 2 facilitating subjects - all good - I do not think any university expects 3 - DS started out with Maths as a 4th but I think there was a gentleman's agreement at his school he was competent and good at maths but not stellar - not his finest hour - so he dropped it. I think Maths would be a great one to do & if in doubt I would drop the Economics. DS was advised if he wanted to do anything serious to do with Economics , take Maths - ( again again - anecdote) There is a poster here whose son is doing v well in Economics ( or related) - she may advise better.

DS only did 3 A levels - I know many do more and are probably much cleverer than my Ds but if your son's aspiration is Oxford ( cannot speak for cambridge ) 3 are enough . Also seemed enough for UCL and 2 other very well regarded universities. Just not LSE. If he is interested worth looking at their website & PS information.

Well whichever way - I hope it goes well for him. I worried about Ds doing 3 essay based subjects as he is dyslexic. It worked out OK. I would have loved him to do Maths as one of the three .

How good is he at maths? This can have a huge bearing on his work load. If he is good, he should take it. Job applications, whatever, a good maths is a sign he is numerate and plenty of history grads go into accountancy, commercial law, the civil service etc. Maths A level, if you don’t have the aptitude and want to get a good grade, can be a time consuming struggle. His teacher should be able to advise.

Ditto perhaps with English. Is he a natural? If he is more interested in economics, history maths and economics sound like a good combo, as he would presumably then be drawn naturally to economic history options.

I understand that the economics A level syllabus was revamped a couple of years ago and now more interesting, and better regarded by universities. (It used to be very dull.) I disagree with previous posters in that I think basic economic literacy is a valuable life skill.

Ditto with music. He will be playing anyway, but is he interested in the rest of the syllabus.

Starting with four sounds fine to me. Some kids are happy being busy, and it is good experience for an Oxford workload. He can always drop the one he enjoys least if it gets too much.

I would add that things can change a lot between GCSE and A level. DS loved history and knew a lot, but found A level surprisingly tough. Luckily at the same time he discovered a previously (well) hidden aptitude for maths. The reverse would have been equally possible.

Taking maths along with at least one humanities subject (history) assuming he is good enough, is one way of keeping options open. University is still some way off. Rather than focus on a single course at a single University it might be worth considering what other courses might potentially appeal and ensuring that as many door remain open as possible. If there is any chance he might end up being interested in something like PPE, he should take maths if he can.

This is going back many years, but when I was applying to universities I called up Oxford and Cambridge to find out how they would regard music vs English. Cambridge was very positive about music, said they knew how driven and focused musicians tended to be; Oxford said an “essay subject” like English would be a stronger option. They may have been thinking about what helps candidates prepare for interviews etc rather than just their entry requirements — I’m not sure. I ended up doing Music as a fourth AS and didn’t carry it on. In my case I felt I got more out of the extra-curricular music I did anyway.

It could be worth you or your son calling up the universities, and for Oxbridge potentially specific colleges he is interested in, to check whether they have recommendations for his particular circumstances beyond what is in their subject handbook.

Does your son do Music GCSE and enjoy it? I ask because most of my musical friends from those days didn’t feel they got much out of school music GCSE and A-Level and most of us had dropped it by A2. We were doing weekend school, summer school etc instead so if your son is likely to feel the same he could free up a slot either for another subject, extra practice or just down-time by not taking on Music AS.