Heading towards year 2 exams (uni 2017)

[brizzlemint]

Starting uni 2017 continued.
Tales of radiators, errant boilers, tomatoes and potato mashers...oh and university students.

Reading the comments on here make me realise how short the third term at university really can be. We are glad to have dc's back home but it seems that we have only just waved goodbye to them after Easter.

My ds starts his first term at very beginning of September, so he finished early May!....(Scottish Uni)
he's currently spending month abroad volunteering in a marine research institute and hoping to do MSc in this subject so all relevant experience for him...at least he has another 2 yrs at Uni before graduating ....can't believe he's been at Uni 2 yrs already
I waiting till he finishes uni so I can consider retiring!( he's the youngest of 3, so been paying for their time at uni for past 8yrs!)

DS called this evening on way home from exam, very despondent as he run out of time for 1 question. He thinks he has enough to pass but would like more than a pass.

He is having a few drinks with flat mate tonight for a birthday then back to revision, 1 next Friday then following Tuesday.

He’s also sorting placement accommodation and going to flat share with 2 other students who he has never met or spoken to apart from a few WhatsApp messages.

As placement is 8 hours from where we live and 4 from him - not a lot he can do , but as the town and immediate area is a bit grim rent is very cheap.

Eve - apart from the exam question your DS sounds very organised.

Great to hear everyone s dcs are doing well with their exams. Dd1 is home this weekend which is good. Shes enjoying the practical side of dentistry now with phantom heads etc and if she passes all the assements can finish 12th July I think.
Dd2 has 2 A level exams to complete next week then time to relax and enjoy the long summer!

Well done to all those DC who have passed their exams. I must ask DS2 when he gets his results.
Eve, your son's work year will hopefully give him more confidence in himself. When our elder son decided to leave uni after the 1st year and get a job he began to feel so much better because he knew what was required of him each day rather than having to find out. He has no plans to return to full time study, but has said if he ever did having worked beyond acadaemia would give him a totally different perspective on the things that had seemed worrying aged 19. I'm not sure if I'm wording this very well, but hopefully it makes sense!
Try not to worry about his living arrangements. A couple of weeks into this academic year there was a stabbing 3 streets away from where DS2 is living and I was spooked for a few days but he took it in his stride. Living in grotty places is almost a rite of passage as a student. 😁

I get the impression that running out of time is the norm rather than the exception in DDs exams! It's never been entirely clear to me why exams often have very tight time constraints.

Doing a placement away from both home and uni town is likely to be a good maturing experience - DD had something a bit like this last year, 12 weeks in less than ideal accommodation, no-one she knew well at the outset.

I imagine it's like having a first proper job but with the security of being able to escape back to university after a year.
Then when you do come to apply for your first real job you have more idea about what to expect out in the working world.

My DD has her exams this week. She's been shut in her house for a week and very quiet. This is normal for her in times of stress, so I can't wait for the end of the week, when she can relax again. She has a private room for her exams, which helps massively. Send Forensic Psychology thought waves in her direction at 9:30 tomorrow morning.

DD also at a Scottish uni finished exams mid May and has 4 weeks work experience in her uni city. She also has a p/t job so was planning to spend summer there. Only problem is that our elderly cat has now been diagnosed with an inoperable tumour - so dd planning to come home at end of June to see the cat ( and us!)

Lots of good luck to all those still doing exams - they happen at such varying times. And getting results too - well done to all those who have got the results they wanted.

DD came back a couple of days ago and is now off on her holiday today. No idea when she gets her results - her course has exams in Jan and May and assessed coursework, so she already knows some marks.

Good luck to your daughter, SMaCM!
Sorry to hear about your cat, Readsalotgirl63. 💐

A couple of DDs flatmates are going abroad or doing placements next year, and her own year will be scattered around hospitals in the region, so it feels like the end. She hopes to spend an academic year elsewhere after the end of her third year so she wont be around when the placement people come back.

She seems to have decided that she will treat her intercalation year as professional development, so not an extension of being a student, and that when she returns to Bristol she does not want to live as a student. Luckily there appear to be plenty of flats owned by Doctors who used to work in Bristol which are let to medical students reaching the end of their training. In short mentally she stops being a student at the end of next year.

In contrast her brother is completing his fifth year with another five to go, as his PhD will take six years the first two of which are taught. He seems as happy as can be, despite exams every four or so weeks (he is in the US so we are finally starting to understand mid-terms, GPAs, class placement etc). The final exams are this week and he looks exhausted, or rather he gets to skip the end of the year exams if he does well enough in these, so no pressure... I had wondered whether he would get tired of being a student, but there is no sign of this yet.

exams set within a university by people who may be subject matter experts but not necessarily skilled in the art of setting tests

Huh? Not skilled? Don't academics do this multiple times per year, every single year? With similar cohorts coming through each year, don't you think we all have an incredible amount of expertise in setting scaffolded exams, with marks that spread over the entire range and separate out the students?

Don't academics do this multiple times per year, every single year? With similar cohorts coming through each year, don't you think we all have an incredible amount of expertise in setting scaffolded exams, with marks that spread over the entire range and separate out the students?

No doubt. However at some institutions and in some subjects most academics will not have been through the British system before being appointed. For example DS was able to take quite a specialist course taught by quite a big name visiting academic, and another who, though his academic credentials were sound, had spent at least a couple of decades doing rather than teaching. Plus one, again a small course, who was perhaps more focused on research who was known to reuse questions from previous years. (The students were not about to tell!)

University is not school and some of the best academics appear to be, at best, reluctant UG teachers.

The issue for DD is that she is a guinea pig on a new course apparently imposed on the University with both staff and students feeling their way. There are teething problems, but in many ways it is fine. The NHS is unlikely to be any less disorganised. She has decided the best approach is to make sure she is on top of all the academic stuff they have been taught, and indeed plans to spend part of the summer revising. Apparently they will face major exams at the end of their first clinical year, and that the clinical year is pretty hectic. Plus my understanding is that the final exams are national exams which help determine what F1 and F2 placements they get, so as long as she passes the one she just took it does not matter too much.

In short, Universities and courses vary a lot. I agree with a pp. Not all subject experts seem to be skilled at setting tests.

It is weirder in the US where mid terms etc help determine your GPA and grades seem to follow a set distribution, ie depend on class placement. It seems not unusual to get 100% (you are being tested on maths etc that you have just been taught) so 99% could mean that you are in the bottom half of the class, with a grade to match. Obviously with so many tests this evens out, but it is frustrating to miss out because of a single mark. .

However at some institutions and in some subjects most academics will not have been through the British system before being appointed.

But the UK HE system is absurdly over-regulated.

One academic sets the exam, but this is checked by at least one other academic, then goes through a committee/exams officer, then gets checked by an academic from another institution (external examiner).

Once the exam is marked the whole process repeats again: second marked by another academic, passes through committees and boards, marks and scripts viewed by the external examiner etc.

It would be virtually impossible for any exam not to be have assessed by at least one person with years of experience in UK HE - this is a basic requirement in making appointments of external examiners.

LSE are not exempt from these hoops - though I can believe that their second examiners might not always do their jobs as diligently as they do in other places. Indeed in any system with so many redundant checks there will be a tendency to assume that one of the other people in the chain has done the checks and you don't need to.

• One academic sets the exam, but this is checked by at least one other academic, then goes through a committee/exams officer, then gets checked by an academic from another institution (external examiner).

Does that really pertain to exams on each and every option for first and second years? (Ones which don't count towards the final degree classification ). It wasn't the impression I'd got - I'd be delighted to be wrong!

Didn't hear from DD this weekend, hopefully that means she's ok just busy.

And I will concede that what a parent hears from a child may reflect the exception rather than the rule. The visiting professor was only around for half a year, and possibly only taught half a one very small third year UG class, plus maybe some PG.They had no idea what sort of thing he would set, though no doubt he had plenty of internal advice and external checks. The students worried but equally were happy to be exposed to his thinking.

I am assuming that there is a regular tension between staff who focus on research and see UG teaching and exams as a necessary evil

DDs problem, I suspect, is that it is a new course and they need to teach till the end of term. So proper exams at the end of next year - 11 months after they have been near a lecture room, and a practical role playing scenario this. Students were not happy that it was not a level playing field, so it will be a lesson learned for next year. In the long run DD was probably lucky to take it under exam conditions, and the assumption is that it won't count for much. I have seen several posts over the years suggesting its not fun being the guinea pig. I suspect this is even more so for staff than for students.

However it appears that they did not change the scenario examined through the two days, so some who took it on the second day are bragging about how easy it was. Not surprising as they knew what was coming up.

Well, not at all smart of the early candidates to let on what the thing was about. I'm amazed they didn't think before they spoke - at best there are only ever a few scenarios at these things so never a good plan to talk about any to anyone who hasn't yet gone in. So, they need to wise up a little too before next time around although to be fair the medical school should have had the nous to chuck in a couple of other scenarios to minimize possible damage. A big notice for those who don't think could also usefully be put up eg CARELESS TALK COSTS RANKING.

I have to say I've always positively welcomed my DC being guinea pigs in public exams. We've had a guinea pig taking the first year of A* A levels, another doing the first linear A levels, another taking all new GCSEs last summer. I think the exam boards are kinder in the first year of change so I'm absolutely all for it (plus the exams were more challenging, so better suited to able DC - admittedly terrible for those who struggle).

I feel for DS and his friends who have finished exams and are now being rained on, heavily!

Sorry. I did not mean first year of exams, but first year of a substantially revised degree course. Despite best intentions some learning will emerge for the administrators. It would be quite unlikely that some changes are not made in subsequent years.

DD and her friends certainly did not tell anyone. Indeed their failure to do so was the cause of the gloating messages. It is a big year group and loyalties will be tested. Most are still only 19/20.

That said DD is happy with the mix of practical and academic. I met one of her friends last weekend, who said he was astonished by how hard the medics worked. Their terms certainly seem to go on forever. They went back three weeks before the others in the autumn and still have another two weeks to go. But it seems fun.

And sorry, I did not mean to cause a thread divert.

DD's exam "was ok" apparently, so I'm taking that as a good sign.

I remember one of my OU tutors telling us the process for setting and marking exams. It explained why it all took so long.

Errol - all assessments that count for the degree (either progression or final classification) have to undergo this level of scrutiny. In practice this means that it is very rare for a university exam not to go through this procedure.

It is way beyond what universities in most other countries do.

I am not convinced that this procedure makes most exams better. For example, you often have to set an exam well before you have taught the material, which can be very limiting when you are teaching a new part of a course. But the detailed scrutiny does at least give some level of consistency to exams across any given department & it usually weeds out exam questions that would be truly dire.

If students across the whole cohort do find a particular question difficult, then marks will either be scaled or that part of the question will be ignored in calculating the exam mark. Long discussions in committees are used to decide on the best course of action....

It's also normal to cross-correlate marks between different exams on the same course, to ensure that there is no exam that is particular harder and lower scoring than the rest. Lots of statistical analysis....

DD phoned about summer vacation logistics, and mentioned that most of the exams so far had been roughly as expected but one (on an option) was 'ridiculous' - but was cheerful enough because that's what everyone doing it thought, and the marks will indeed be moderated/ 'grade boundaried' or whatever.

@latedecember - thanks for that. Puss is 17 so dd knew when she went to uni that she might be saying goodbye - i'm just glad her exams are over and hoping he stays stable until she's completed her work experience. But it does feel like the end of an era - the house is very quiet just now without dd

MN is useful and thank you uzfrdiop for your explanation.

I guess what we are seeing in part, are the inevitable inconsistencies when parts of a vocational course are delivered by medical professionals rather than academic staff. At the start of the year DD had a brilliant three week placement which followed a medical issue through the science, into the diagnosis, treatment and then community care. She got one of her first choices, loved it and engaged fully. The marks her group got averaged around 70%. Her friend's group all got in the 90s.

I assume that they will need to use scores from placements and practical tests, though DD is not sure how. I guess that sometimes these will fall into the category of "life is not always fair" but you plough on, do your best and hope you do well enough. As uzfrdiop suggests, too much moderation does not always help. Indeed probably in the case of practical assessments is hard to achieve.