Mental health and suicides at uni.

[justasking111]

The report is of one uni. but is it their fault. We put two DCs through uni. from 1999 to 2003, one of their friends from school did have problems and came home. Is it the pressure of work, the pressure of money, or should some students not be expected to go to uni. would they be happier at a local day college??

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/uea-student-deaths-mental-health_uk_5c8a47dfe4b0fbd766213fbc?ncid=fcbklnkukhpmg00000001&fbclid=IwAR26GrADNgCTpO5t24QH4QxVkBClSsQ3JwGn1eqSQifxNMmG_w1K4Dyf0z4

@ForgiveMeFatherForIHaveGinned yes, I agree with so much of your post.

Weetabix I was referring to this part of your post: My dd gets 6 contact hours a week - and that's with all different staff. How can anyone get to know students in that short amount of time?

MindyStClaire that comment was in reply to woodpigeon who said that she got to know her students through regular tutorials but that the increase in student numbers has changed this.

I was agreeing with her that if students only get 6 hours contact time and that is with several different staff we can't expect lecturers to know the students.

I'm just interested to know who is looking out for the welfare of the students? There's a difference between those who are choosing not to attend and those for whom non attendance is a symptom.

Maybe more students are forcing themselves to continue when it might be better to leave because of the money that it costs. If you leave before you graduate you leave with nothing, apart from a huge debt, which I can see could be a factor that adds to the problem.

Following on from ForgiveMeFatherForIHaveGinned post, what is causing our young people to be struggling so much with their mental health? What can we all do to change this?

I'm just interested to know who is looking out for the welfare of the students?

Who's looking out for your welfare? Your family and friends? I'd argue it should be the same for students. If you don't show at work, you'll likely face a disciplinary before a welfare check. Once it's clear you're ill, hopefully your employer would support you in your recovery, provide reasonable adjustments etc, but it would be up to you to inform them.

Students do get a whole lot more support than other adults. I just don't know how much should be expected of universities.

Who's looking out for your welfare? Your family and friends? I'd argue it should be the same for students. If you don't show at work, you'll likely face a disciplinary before a welfare check.

But I live with my family and I go to work every day. If I went out for the night and didn't get home someone would know. Likewise if I became very depressed and locked myself in the bedroom, someone would know. If I don't show up for work then they phone me to see if I am ok.

Seemingly even if students never turn up for lectures no one checks on them, families might be hundreds of miles away and oblivious to what's going on? Who raises the flag to say something might be wrong?

I know of a student who died in their room. The flatmates knew because they'd left the shower running and it started to flood into the hall way. If that hadn't happened how long until someone would have realised?

Would it really have only been when the cleaners went in?

Maybe this is the case. I do think universities should have a duty of care to its students though.

I don't know Weetabix. I suppose I'm also conscious that my department has experienced this. More than once. Each time an engaged student, performing well, coming to class, participating. Lots of friends, supportive family etc.

In my department, we do contact students who miss tutorials. They're rarely the ones struggling tbh.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just grumpy after a week of complaints from students that I won't tell them what's on the exam in advance (yes, if it's covered in lectures, it's examinable) and that they have to come the whole way to the school office for their assessment results. I do agree we have a duty of care. I just don't think it's anywhere near the duty of care of a school and I strongly believe parents should not be involved in university life at all, no more than they will be when their children start work.

All this talk of them simply being adults really doesn’t take into account any understanding of adolescent development.
This is a really vulnerable age and time. And this is known by most adolescent mental health professionals. But as I said earlier this is about cuts in mental health funding as much as in university provision.

I don't think it's uncommon to think that personal tutors are not there to talk to because you need to keep your place on the course and they can start on a route that could end that. It may be an inaccurate perception but I don't think it's an uncommon one.

"I do think universities should have a duty of care to its students though."

But, what is that level of care? It's not a school, university staff aren't substitute parents. It's not a family environment and it's a completely unrealistic expectation to think it could be.

Let's say you get to the point of being able to fund an enforced knock on the door every single day for every 17-25 year old (both on and off campus) whether they agree to it or not.

Ignoring the cost and how intrusive many would find that, what if they just lie when they answer the door? Or don't answer because they're sleeping elsewhere or are in a class or have headphones on? When do you force entry? How much do you chase them up? How are you supposed to know everyone's patterns? How are you supposed to spot clinical depression in many people you don't know, when people miss it in their own family members and friends?

Where do you draw a line of being parental? What if they're not depressed but you think their boyfriend looks aggressive and dodgy, or they seem to keep getting drunk and living in squalor?

Meanwhile are you noting all this stuff down routinely in a database for whoever takes your job next cycle to know? What happens to their privacy?

And when students are clearly not fine, when there are serious, serious mental health concerns, what are you supposed to do if they refuse to cooperate?

Short of sectioning them (which I couldn't with an active suicidal family member), you're stuck. You can't call parents under data protection and that's assuming they have supportive family to begin with.

Like others I'm really not trying to be difficult but either we agree as a society that these are adults who are capable of being at university and living alone, or we don't. If they're not then what?

Sorry for the epic post, I've been thinking about this too much today!!

Like others I'm really not trying to be difficult but either we agree as a society that these are adults who are capable of being at university and living alone, or we don't. If they're not then what?

Well they aren't really adults capable of being at university and living alone are they? If they were they wouldn't use parental income to work out loan entitlement surely? So when it comes to money, we deem them "not adult enough" but when it comes to looking after their health and well being they are adult enough?

I really think that we have to over hall the system and accept that the pressure for so many to go to university isn't right. I'm sure that many go for whom it isn't the right choice but they feel forced into it because employers are now demanding degrees for previous direct entry jobs.

I see so many posts from parents stating how miserable their child is, it isn't what they thought it would be, they hate the course or their flatmates and everyone is encouraging them to jolly them along and telling them to toughen up, in part, I'm sure because it's a one time shot, especially if you've gone beyond the 1st year. The way that funding works they won't get funding for a full degree if they drop out any later than after the 1st year.

Take the pressure off of students "having" to go to university and see if it helps.

I would love it if someone could explain what it is that parents want us (ie university staff ) to do. Personal tutors in my department have say 20 students on their list. Should they speak to them daily? Five minutes each that is just over an hour a day. Or maybe we could do registration before 9, the students would love that. Weekly? Same time needed, but given that all the students have different timetables the scheduling will be a nightmare and the tutor will be constantly interrupted by these short meetings. I can guarantee that at least half (optimistically) of the students won’t turn up (they don’t like coming for once a semester chats). What then? Follow up the ten missed meetings? There goes another hour or so. What about the student who doesn’t answer their phone? Do we have to go and find them? What if they aren’t at home? Do I need to get a list of possible locations? I can just imagine that conversation “so John, if you think you might sleep over at your friend’s flat after a night out I’ll need their address so I can pop in and check you’re ok, also you’ll need to let me have a list of nights when you might get lucky and go home with someone for sex, just in case I need to contact you...and please don’t put your phone on silent during any morning hanky panky in case I need to check your welfare.”
Students increasingly come to university with a range of mental health issues and there is no mechanism by which we can fully support them as academics. It is not our job. We have minimal training, few opportunities to get to know students well enough to recognise signs of problems, and in some cases little natural talent in empathy (speaking as an engineer). Parents should not believe that we are able to monitor all students, for one thing they would resist and they are entitled, like all adults, to a private life.

I totally agree with the idea that we have too many students who just blindly move from school to university. They should be encouraged to think more about whether they are ready.

So maybe if a school student has mental health issues leaving home at 18 is not a good Idea??

Something I have noticed is students picking colleges at the other end of the country so that it's difficult to get home and family/friends find it difficult to visit due to distances finance thus isolating them further

I work in student support at a RG university and a big part of my role is dealing with mitigating circumstances claims submitted by students who have missed exams or coursework due to ill health. I would say easily that 95% of the claims are depression and anxiety, and colleagues who have been doing the job much longer than me say it’s worse than it’s ever been, by some distance. I recently attended a workshop on assisting students in crisis and we were told about the months-long waiting lists for accessing university counselling and how the drop in appointments for one-off consultations are usually gone by 9:15 after being opened online at 9:00 each morning.

I can’t say for sure but I think a lot of this may stem from the huge competition students have to face now. I graduated in 2009 myself and that year was when I had my first really serious episodes of anxiety and depression as we were basically told, there’s a recession on, there are no jobs. And things aren’t ‘fixed’ now, there are still many more graduates than there are graduate jobs. Students on arts/humanities programmes don’t have clear pathways to decent employment. My mum used to tell me that a good degree in English/languages etc was just a jumping off point to a good career; it was when she graduated in the late 70s but it isn’t now, and I actually think many students are a bit shocked to learn that. Industries where arts grads used to go, such as journalism and publishing, are now largely gig economies which will require lots of interning for no pay, which isn’t feasible for students without fairly well off parents/connections.

And in business and STEM the competition from the huge international student cohorts is intense. Not that there’s anything wrong with international students, I love working with them, but the sheer size of lecture groups is getting insane. Our business school makes so much money from international students and it will not cap student intake (whether home or otherwise) on its courses. There’s no lecture theatre big enough on our campus for most of the business school lectures.

Then you’ve got all the absolute shite with things like revenge porn on social media, which didn’t exist when we were younger. I do think that students are better at speaking out about and seeking help for MH difficulties nowadays and that’s good, but I also think that they’re studying and graduating in a world run by adults who don’t understand how different things are for them, compared to how they were when said adults were younger.

University definitely shouldn't be the default option for school leavers.

But having said that, so many basic, entry level jobs require degrees, so you'd be discriminating against people with mental health issues if you somehow stopped them coming (and they'd be more likely to try and hide them).

The fact that so many jobs ( note not careers, just jobs) require a degree these days is putting pressure on students to go to university in the hope that they will be able to get a foot on the jobs ladder
When I went to uni in the 80's fewer than 15% of population went to university and got degrees....there was also possibility of a full grant
Put all these factors together and you can see why there may be an increase in pressures affecting mental health in our dcs ....university fees, employment, keeping up with peers intellectually and socially and add into the mix social media and all its know pressures

I don’t know what the answer is. What I do know is that my 19yr old hasn’t had a wonderful experience of student services. She raised concern about a close friend who she had been trying to support. Student services called her in and told her that unfortunately her friend had taken her own life, but that my daughter couldn’t tell anyone. She spent 20 mins with student services and that was it. She was left to her own devices. They didn’t ask her if she had any mental health issues or ask
If she was vulnerable. She had 24 hours alone after her friend had died, in halls. None of her flat mates knew what was wrong although she was extremely distressed.
To access councillor help from the University students are expected to fill in a lengthy application form, at a time when they are most vulnerable.

Since Oct 18 there have been one close friend and two acquaintances take their own lives.
It does seem like a growing problem that is under reported.
I must say though her tutor and lecturers have however been very supportive.

@Chemenger I'm sure I've seen your posts in the past and you echo my sentiments if you are the person I'm thinking of (fellow academic who has similar opinions to me).

IMO universities need to put more funding into a separate support system for students leaving academics to concentrate on what they are trained to do. We are not councillors. More and more students are coming to university, and many have complex issues. There needs to be more funding put into support for this instead of other ridiculous initiatives. Lecturers are neither equipped to deal with this - nor do we have the time.

and that, by the way, doesn't mean we don't care - we do - we just aren't in the position to deal with what we are presented with effectively.

So maybe if a school student has mental health issues leaving home at 18 is not a good Idea??

I really think this is not the right approach. As cory says so well, you can't know who will benefit from what approach - a student with mental health issues might blossom at university and improve hugely. Or, a student who has often been very stable, might suddenly struggle. In fact, this is common, because young adulthood is the age at which all sorts of issues just do tend to make themselves known. It's a common age for diagnoses of bipolar, for example.

I get why it is tempting to read about something tragic and assume it was preventable, and/or that if someone is suicidal, there must be clear signs. But there often aren't. There just isn't a very strong correlation between a student who is doing things like missing lectures/staying in their room all day, and a student who becomes suicidal. I known students who were bubbly, conscientious workers, who still attempted suicide. And many, many, many more who were withdrawn, didn't leave their rooms and missed lectures, who were absolutely fine.

And tooth, that's awful.

Just found something reassuring. Apparently students are less likely to commit suicide than those outside education in their age group so that needs to be considered.

"Previous ONS estimates looking at student suicides covered a range of other students including, those in further education. The new statistics show that between 2013 – 2016, higher education students in England and Wales had a significantly lower suicide rate compared with the general population of similar ages."

www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/policy-and-analysis/Pages/student-suicide.aspx

In this article I noted that students were at less risk in their first year. I wonder why this is. Could it be that halls of residence are better for students, or is the workload lighter in the first year.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44583922

That's really interesting, thanks for sharing that. I wonder why, too?