Investment Banking

[Trendler]

DS is interested in a career in investment banking. Wants to apply to uni to do Economics (LSE, UCL and Leeds uni are all on his list). He is studying History, Ecomnomics and Maths at A Level & Further Maths AS.

Any general advice that anyone has plus also about work experience in Year 12 would be helpful. There don't seem to be many opportunities at his age for w/e in Investment Banks but he has been offered a week in the summer in a retail bank.

Ok giving up on sp.

Off topic, but second year exams at the LSE are the ones that seem to really matter as they can include some tough and technical compulsory papers. Third year in comparison can be a breeze. Same number of exams but mainly/entirely options you have chosen. The big advantage is that if you fail stuff at the end of the second year there is scope to retake/repeat, unlike with final year exams.

And obviously (?!) this creates more opportunity to show off your stamina to potential employers for ten weeks over the summer...

My typos are so galore in these posts that I should have a disclaimer at the end of every post like my USA colleagues do when emailing from a phone.

I don’t know how much these long term summer internships provide cheap useful work to the firms or whether it is purely a lost leader for recruitnent of a few partially trained candidates. Anyway even spring weeks are certainly no longer for their supposed purpose of career exploration.

Looking at the title my initial thought was has OP's son ruled out the buy side? The vibe is different; quieter, more cerebral, faster paced, but the work is far more interesting, work-life balance and financial rewards (more results less schmoozing) much better than the sell side.

With his A level preferences he may not be looking at maths or physics or engineering probably, but if he were to throw the history or economics for FM and opt for maths, and is very good at puzzle solving, that may be faster and more effective than grubbing around at an IB. If he manages to get to the sell side early, he will learn much faster and be dealing with the likes of GS, JPM, BAML, Morgan Stanley as their client from the start. Strategy consulting is also another route; although there will be quite a lot of selling, the culture is on balance a little less form over substance. And of course there is always IB if it doesn't work out.

As for internships, they are a sort of trial run, and can be useful if the sell side is your goal. You need only your head for the buy side, not pages of schmoozing on your CV, but the intake is in single figures rather than 100s and the numbers of established and successful sell-side firms are smaller. I think that the vibe that suits your son will be the key to what course and which university he chooses. If he thinks a low key, effective buy side is what suits him, then some form of rocket science that he can thoroughly enjoy and do well in would be more useful than a spring or summer internship. Buy side firms will take the right mathematicians or rocket scientists with no investment experience because they can pick up the economics in weeks.

Gosh - I didn't come back to this thread as initial replies were slow but have just noticed 4 pages worth! Will read through avidly. Thanks for replying in advance

Ok have read it all now. He did apply for the JP Morgan programmes but didn't get a place (although it did encourage him to read some useful background material and gave him interview/ application practice). All the other programmes for Yr 12 now seem to be aimed at under represented groups which he isn't. Hence the retail bank option which was a fall back but which maybe would just be useful from his own personal point of view of understanding the world of work in general.

I'm interested in maryso's post but don't know what the "buy" and "sell" side is. Would you be able to explain it a bit further (I'm not in the field but was in a related one years ago so have a vague idea of what you mean).

He's already doing further maths AS level and understands the need for excellent maths grades to get into the Economics courses. He's pretty good at maths but I think he maybe has more of a natural talent for the writing subjects so I'm wondering if he might be better off aiming for something like Economic History or PPE at one of the universities mentioned above.

Trendler, some egs of the sell side would be IB and firms that provide financial analysis and instruments to sell, of the buy side would be private equity and hedge funds. Graduate appointments on the buy side tend to be very good puzzle solvers often from being very good at maths and physics, the econometrics can be quickly mastered and the human nature part of economics can also be evident in how they think and solve puzzles. Many buy side firms will be low key and very flexible on working conditions because it is difficult to find the right people. They also pay way better than IB.

At 17 the main thing to do is if possible to keep his options open (eg economics A level is totally unnecessary for university or work, history is necessary if that's a possible career path, double maths will keep a lot of doors open) and pursue what lights up his life, because that will be where he is most likely to find his place. Work experience is good if it builds a sense of the world, useless otherwise apart from being a source of pocket money. Realistically, maths and physics, possibly engineering, skills will always trump economics skills for buy side jobs. That said, people grow in different ways, so if he loves economics above all else, it is worth pursuing. After 3 or 4 years he may find his niche and go where he will be happiest.

Are there still jobs in Investment Banking for humanities students?