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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

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Original poster

Which A Levels

52 replies

Teenagedconfusion · 01/03/2019 13:23

I am hoping someone who has gone through this process can help. My son has chosen to study A Levels in Maths, Business and Economics and selected a lovely college. However he has now been told that Economics is no longer available. The problem is that he doesn't fancy doing any of the other options. Economics just fitted so well. He isn't planning on University. Now faced with choosing a random A Level, which I think is a waste, or leaving all his friends (he's shy and quiet) to choose another college. Any advice would be great!

OP posts:

Daisymay2 · 01/03/2019 17:26

Yes, there does seem to be a lack of guidance on A level choices. We were recommended a similar document regarding facilitating subjects when my boys were looking, but there was still some stange combinations. At my sons's school, they were not allowed to do Economics and Buisness Studies as they viewed them as too similar. Geography does have some overlap with Economics ( particularly Human Georgraphy) History woud be good or what about English? As a PP has said, the ability to marshall an arguement and write a coherent paper is a bonus.

BasiliskStare · 01/03/2019 17:44

So - others will give better advice - but Physics ? - is that not closely related to Maths , which he seems to be good at. Otherwise I would generally say again an essay based subject which enables writing a decent reasoned argument. But then I don't know your DS and he may hate that. English Lit ( if you can do the reading ) is quite analytical - as indeed History - but that is more about skills than knowledge . Both will take a fair amount of reading. But possibly not more than Religion and Ethics or Philosophy ( which I understand he did not do - so maybe not his thing)

123Flopsy · 02/03/2019 15:03

They do offer further maths but have said he can't do it as he is already doing maths and you can't choose both there."

This is weird. At our school you can only take Further Maths at Alevel if you also take Maths.
You are strongly encouraged to take a 4th subject as many Unis regard Maths/Fm as 'Maths'.

Pythonesque · 02/03/2019 16:54

If he is thinking that he won't go to university, then it is perhaps even more important that he develops some idea of what he wants to do after A levels. And then considers what courses might be useful for his goals. Definitely check for relevant BTec courses.

My 16 yr old is also unsure what she wants to do in the future but "anything but science" despite being good at it. If forced to do a science (she won't be) she would also go for Physics over the others, and there are some synergies with A level maths.

It sounds like he should be looking at the further away colleges and finding out if he could do Maths, Economics and Computer Science at any of them - that might make the travel time worth it. How much computing expertise / experience does he have? Has he done much programming? That is all the background he should need, if he's strong in maths, for A level CS as far as I understand it.

Good luck supporting him through this ...

ErrolTheDragon · 02/03/2019 16:59

If he's not planning on university, does he know what he does want to do after 6th form?

Given that the college has, from the sound of it, rather messed up by withdrawing economics, if he's interested in doing comp sci. It might be worth pushing to see if they'll let him do it - given that top university CS courses require maths (and sometimes further maths) but not CS this really does sound like a daft constraint.

And as others have said, maths or further maths makes no sense.

BlueMerchant · 02/03/2019 17:05

I think an English/humanities subject would be good. Workplaces like an 'all-rounder' .

Xenia · 02/03/2019 17:09

My son did economics as his non facilitating subject and geog. and history as his two facilitating subjects. Although not a facilitating subject economcis is well regarded by employers (and universities in case your son later decides to go to university) so maths, economics and geography for example would be a really good combination if he can find a sixth form that does those - any decent state grammar or private school or comp that gets high grades would almost be 100% guaranteed to do those subjects.

theyellowjumper · 02/03/2019 21:21

I've never heard of anyone doing further maths A level without maths. Has your ds definitely understood this correctly? I'd ring the college and ask if you can go in with your son and talk through the options. Philosophy shouldn't need RE, so I'd push them on that if he wants to do it.

Abetes · 03/03/2019 07:11

I’m sure that there is a misunderstanding about Maths too. Usually you do maths and further maths together. I’ve never heard of a case where you just do further maths....you need the content of the maths a level to be able to do the further maths a level.

LoniceraJaponica · 03/03/2019 07:50

I agree that not offering further maths with maths sounds wrong. Usually students can only do FM if they take maths as well. I know that most medical schools don't count maths and FM as 2 separate subjects as they are too similar, and will only consider applications if it is a fourth subject. But maths and FM is often a prerequisite for maths and engineering degrees.

123Flopsy · 03/03/2019 08:28

Often Maths is covered in year 12 followed by Further Maths in year 13. You cannot take Further Maths without having taken Maths.

Yes, some courses (and countries) consider both as 'Maths', which of course it is!

Xenia · 03/03/2019 09:54

Also plenty of universities and employers want all A levels done at once as that is harder. I think if he can manage it he should do maths, economics and geography and perhaps at a better school where those combinations are common. Those who are brilliant at maths may do maths and also further maths usually in addition to their other 2 A levels.

LoniceraJaponica · 03/03/2019 10:08

"Also plenty of universities and employers want all A levels done"

This ^^

titchy · 03/03/2019 10:08

To be honest it doesn't sound like it's a very good college. He should look elsewhere. In fact he should apply elsewhere anyway, and make his mind up in the summer. A change might be good for him you know.

Rade · 03/03/2019 11:10

I wonder whether this is more of a FE / vocational college (not sure of the right name) than a sixth form college?
Have you visited the college and other sixth forms with him? I think as he is still only 15/16 I would do my own research and if necessary ring the college maths department to clarify. It's hard to believe they would refuse to let a student predicted 8/9 in maths do Further Maths. Either he has misunderstood or they don't do FM.

Rade · 03/03/2019 11:11

In fact he should apply elsewhere anyway, and make his mind up in the summer.
Yes to this. Lots of DC apply to more than one sixth form and make a final decision after GCSE results.

Stickerrocks · 03/03/2019 21:37

Economics is a more theoretical A level than business studies and people usually take one or the other. I would suggest politics as an alternative to economics, if it is available. However, the subjects on offer at the college do sound bizarre. Further Maths is not taken in isolation, at either A level or GCSE. You need maths alongside it. Is the college aware that he is expected to get grade 8/9 for maths, as many colleges expect a grade 7 for maths to do A level and then 8/9 to take further maths as well. Alternatively, some colleges will only let you take further maths as a 4th subject.

Xenia · 04/03/2019 08:11

And do be aware that you are either very very good and good enough to do maths A level or else you may well get Ds. A lot of schools rightly try to make that point in the face of parents wanting to force children not suited to the very very hard maths at A level who want their chilren do to STEM subject A levels; better to get high grades in a subject you will be able to than do the subject in my view although he may well be up to A level maths standard in which case no problem. If not he perhaps should do Geography, Economics and something like history or English lit.

theyellowjumper · 04/03/2019 13:47

And do be aware that you are either very very good and good enough to do maths A level or else you may well get Ds

Not sure I agree with this, Xenia. I agree re not forcing kids to do STEM when they're not suited to those subjects, but you seem to be suggesting there's no middle ground between being brilliant at maths and getting Ds? I just had a quick look at last year's maths A level results from my dd's school and a couple of other local schools and there was a big cluster in that middle ground with B or C for maths. I know 3 'good but not brilliant' girls who took A level maths last year and all got Bs, so I'm not sure your warning is fair.

Xenia · 04/03/2019 13:50

I might be wrong. I just know my twins' school every year for those planning sixth form and I think my older cihldren's schools always mention in the A level talk be careful about choosing maths - if you are good at it I think it has more A and A* than other subjects but if you are not quite up to it the leap from GCSE to A level is apparently very large and peoplew ho might have got say A in geography can end up with a C which will not get them their preferred university place (I amn ot suggesting geog is easy of course).

I would just be surprised if the schools were giving those warnings (private schools with bright pupils) if there were not something in it (and if you don't need As + at A level for your chosen career it won't matter anyway).

BasiliskStare · 04/03/2019 14:19

@Xenia and @theyellowjumper - my Ds started maths A level. He was competent and good at GCSE ( A star) - he started it at A level in a school which gave the choice between 4 or 3 A levels . He gave it up as a 4th subject in consultation with teachers. He's a bright boy but even I as his mother could not say he is a talented mathematician. There was another subject he was v. good at and the general advice seemed to be , he could probably get a B in maths , he might get an A with a following wind , but the effort it would take him would take away from work for subjects he was actually very good at ( other 3 A levels were humanities. ) Had he chosen 3 STEM type subjects he may have made a different decision to drop it.

It wasn't going to help him for the next step ( small letters not STEP ) - so dropped it

theyellowjumper · 04/03/2019 14:20

I think all of the local schools here ask for an A/7 in order to do A level maths, whereas most will take B/6 for humanities. The stats here are interesting: www.bstubbs.co.uk/a-lev.htm - there do seem to be more A*/A grades for maths than other subjects which would bear you out re those very very good students, but there are still a good number getting B/C.

I think it might also depend on a student's preferred way of working. The three girls I mentioned are all fairly conscientious and organised. I think maths can be a good option for that type of student who will chip away at the practice questions and past papers week after week. It's definitely not something that can be left until March/April for crash revision. Perhaps the schools you mention are being more realistic about how diligent their students are likely to be!

theyellowjumper · 04/03/2019 14:28

BasiliskStare I think there is definitely a gap in maths between brilliant and good that is more apparent than in some other subjects, so for the 'good' group it's wise to be fairly ruthless about whether the effort is worth it for their future plans. But I think if a student ploughs through the maths week after week then it's possible to get to April/May all ready for the exams and free up time to focus on revising for other A levels - just depends on whether that is the way they are likely to work.

BasiliskStare · 04/03/2019 15:21

@theyellowjumper I am sure you are absolutely right. Good / competent vs talented ( my word for want of a better one) My DH was a mathematician at university and said Ds did not have an "aptitude" ( for want of a better word) but was competent. Given his ( DS ) aspirations were more towards humanities , he dropped it. But school did make him do it for a while to check . I do understand that Maths etc is a fantastic thing to be good at but , honestly , Ds was never going to to be brilliant. He has a decent understanding of Maths but @theyellowjumper of some of his peers he just said to me , they get this in a way I don't think I ever can. So whilst I understand and completely agree that everyone should have a decent understanding of maths, DS was never going to be great. There are many things he is good at but building a bridge or an aircraft or designing a decent financial product - not his forte. That said - if I take your post correctly - yes maths is possible ( up to a point - so university will be a different call altogether ) with hard work ( and btw good teachers)

BasiliskStare · 04/03/2019 15:29

& the general consensus ( at DS's school ) would be that your point of ploughing through it would have still taken away from other exams. You can't just revise for humanities etc either at last minute ( well brilliant people might) but , by and large still need the time. Interesting post @theyellowjumper - thank you

DS's experience was that some of his peers were so far better than maths he could not even see them on the horizon ( my words - but the point) So @theyellowjumper - whether it is true or not - yes I think their comes a point where some are just more talented than others at Maths, I was at University with a chap where others in finals year used to come and ask him stuff - he just had a talent.

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