Oxbridge Applications 2019 (Part Three)

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Today is a big day for many... time for a new thread too

Agreed, Hubbleback. Sadly one of the factors undermining state education is the corrosive and divisive effect of the private school system, which allows precious resources to be concentrated on an elite.

I was agreeing with your previous post, Hubbleback. Re the school leaving age, it is 16. You have to go into training or a college though.

Yes and whilst state education fails to deliver much of the time - parents feel the need to go private. And so it goes on.

Yes you have to be in a form of education until 18. Leaving at 16 is therefore not an economic decision.

Some parents go private because they think state education doesn’t deliver - although there is plenty of evidence that bright middle-class kids will achieve even in poor schools. But in my experience a great many choose private schools for the access and the social cachet. Someone once told me he sent his children to private schools because he ‘didn’t want them mixing with the hoi polloi’ Not everyone would admit it but there’s a massive element of deliberate social segregation.

Leaving at 16 very definitely is an economic decision - training will, theoretically at least - get you in a job quicker and may well be paid anyway. College is easier to combine with paid work than school. Plus, the fear of student debt is very high for many low-income families.

When bursaries for the 16+ were abolished it had a big impact on the numbers staying on in sixth form.

Yes there will be a myriad of reasons including wanting smaller classes for children with SEN. I could never judge parents as I think most are just trying to do the best they can. I really hate the private v state debate and the animosity it generates. Ideally we would have a brilliant state education system where people did not feel any need to opt out, But sadly we are not there yet.

Yes regarding bursaries but that was when you could choose to leave education at 16??

Student debt from 18?? Sorry perhaps I don't know enough about this.

Definitely, Hubble. Better SEN provision is why my ds is where he is. He is hugely disadvantaged by his condition and it is slightly mitigated by the schooling he receives. I'm genuinely sorry it's not available to all.

Correction! My DD’s school doesn’t normally get 40 in to Oxbridge. I read the Sutton Trust report wrong! It’s normally about a dozen, just like this year. There are approx 200 students in year 13.

Ah ......... PantTwizzler - mystery solved!

Have any conditions for offers been received yet? Are they what your DC expected?

I’m glad to hear that some private schools offer good state provision but it’s by no means universal. It is a statutory obligation for state schools - though their ability to provide is severely hampered by the cuts currently- but private schools don’t have a similar obligation. Some of my local private schools do not support SEN pupils well at all.

Hubbleback I do apologise, I obviously didn’t make my meaning clear on tuition fees. If you stay on in sixth form nowadays there is s big expectation that you will go to university - so much so that some schools offer little support for any other route. Therefore sixth form has become much more geared up to university entrance than it used to be, which can be offputting for students from low-income families. Many sixth forms also demand minimum GCSE grades for entry, which is another barrier to staying on.

*good SEN provision, not good state provision!

Re the point about having a brilliant state education system so that people don’t ‘feel the need to opt out’ - that’s one of the reasons the 1945 Labour government didn’t abolish private schools. They thought that when affluent parents saw how good grammar schools were they would send their kids there and private schools would just fizzle out naturally. What they didn’t take into account was that parents were paying predominantly for exclusivity rather than educational excellence. Basically the British obsession with class kept the private school system alive.

By the way — is anyone going to be doing this all over again next year? I am

They thought that when affluent parents saw how good grammar schools were they would send their kids there and private schools would just fizzle out naturally. What they didn’t take into account was that parents were paying predominantly for exclusivity rather than educational excellence.

That and the 'dim Tims'

Lililil - DS got his requested grades today. He was* hoping for A star - A - A but the offer is A star - A star - A*. After the euphoria off Mondqy's offer he's now gutted he might not actually make the grades. We're hoping Durham will offer something more achievable. It's been a strange process. So many of his friends didn't get offers, he actually feels quite isolated.

Correcting mumsnet typo glitch
Offer is
A Star
A Star
A

That's for history? Ouch. You'd expect that (or more!) for stem subjects but I'd not heard of quite that high for a humanity before.

A friend's DS had an A star (Maths) from Y12 and was offered
A star
A star
A
in his Y13 A levels for Geography last year, so 3 A stars and an A offer from Cambridge.
.
DS state grammar has got 28 oxbridge offers from 150 students this year. They got 32 in last year with really high grade offers (as most opt for Cambridge).

I'm glad I didn't join this thread early given it seems to have descended into a private state slagging off session. I do wonder what earth is wrong with people sometimes.

SoupDragon, as Samuel Pepys said, when a Mumsnetter is tired of a good old state v private debate, a Mumsnetter is tired of life.