Oxbridge Applications 2019 (Part Three)

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Today is a big day for many... time for a new thread too

They said what never happens is switching to maths.

It just isn't possible (without starting the degree again), because maths builds steadily on all the material taught in the first year of the course. You can't do, for example, an advanced course in calculus without having been taught the foundations of calculus.

Got in to do maths but couldn't keep up so switched to Physics.

(i) It is not very common or easy to transfer from Maths to Physics (Nat Sci) at Cambridge. Unless you mean within the first term? Thereafter it's really not trivial because the science courses rely so much on the material taught earlier.

(ii) It is a myth that Maths is harder. Plenty of people move across from Nat Sci Physics to Maths in the fourth year, to do theoretical physics, and they do just fine.

uzfrdiop, I think part of the reason the tutor said all this was massaging the egos of all the wannabe mathematicians in the room! I've no idea how accurate his assessment

DD said quite a few had transferred from engineering after the first year to other subjects (eg comp sci) but I got the impression they start from scratch not straight into the second year. I'd guess it's all done on a case by case basis.

Chunky letter arrived. Sadly it didn't have a big red wax seal.

It does say that they realise some schools don't cover STEP at all.

(i) It is not very common or easy to transfer from Maths to Physics (Nat Sci) at Cambridge. Unless you mean within the first term?

It doesn't look common or easy but it does happen, I just checked website and it says, under "Changing Course". Link below.

Changing course

About 5-10 per cent of students change from Mathematics each year. Many of these have taken the Mathematics with Physics option in their first year, with the intention of changing to Physics (Natural Sciences).

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/mathematics

(ii) It is a myth that Maths is harder.

Agree, but need for change could be for a different reason. As ErrolTheDragon said, some students may want to transfer to another course simply because they are enjoying maths.

Many of these .... could imply some students go back and start Yr1 in physics if they had not taken it with maths in Yr1 already, provided they have the right A level results.

Letter arrived here too, on very posh paper but in an innocuous envelope!

are enjoying maths.

Missed out "Not"

This is why I want ds to either do really well, or alternatively miss STEP completely and go happily somewhere else. He is very resilient so I know he would bounce back within a day from bad news.

LittleSpace,

Sorry if I shouldn't have done this but I just searched for old posts of yours about your DS - I did it mainly to rule out that I have got your DS mixed up with someone else's DS.

Getting into Cambridge is not a guarantee for anyone but if your son struggles with maths having got in, I will happily eat my laptop.

It's just some things you have said about him that make me feel he will excel and enjoy his maths at Cambridge. All the very best.

People often paint a picture of maths at Cambridge that's difficult to recognise and puts off children who are perfectly suited to go there for their maths education.

Thank you. Nice to download on here.

I think it could go either way but rest assured I have a positive 'go for it' face at home. I do remember a couple of years back there was another poster with a son in a normal comp. who got a Cambridge offer and he just missed it but is thriving at Warwick.

(ii) It is a myth that Maths is harder. Plenty of people move across from Nat Sci Physics to Maths in the fourth year, to do theoretical physics, and they do just fine.

The fourth year of the Tripos (called part III) has lots of different courses, and you can specialise in just theoretical physics. Part III is basically a "masters" year, so people would be moving after having finished their first degree.

For anyone with a STEP offer, please have a look at maths.org/step! I am also happy to answer any questions (feel free to pm me if you want).

I noticed a thread on the HE board with no responses asking about oxford maths and philosophy, in particular about the MAT which maybe someone here might be able to help with.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3487887-Oxford-Maths-Philosophy

Thanks. I believe ds is working through that site already but just in case I've forwarded it to him.

Do the STEP results come out the same time as A Levels?

Sorry - should have kept a closer eye on this thread!

I don't want anyone to let him in if STEP goes badly. Imagine how awful it would be to be at somewhere like Cambridge if you couldn't cope with the work. I'd much prefer him to go somewhere else in that situation.

Every year about a third of students who are accepted to read maths at Cambridge miss their STEP offer (they usually get a 1 in STEP 2 and a 2/3 in STEP 3). So if someone missed their STEP grade and still gets in it's not unusual! (I wish someone had told me this 20+ years ago).

does Cambridge ever go higher than asking for a 1? Or is that a really, really difficult offer ? (I'm very uninformed about STEP, all I know is that it sounds brutal).

Yes, but not usually for State school pupils. I once taught someone who had an S, S offer for Trinity - got 1,1 and was taken by T Hall (this was an independent school.

However there have been a couple of colleges who have given an S grade to a state school student. Very few, and I don't know why!

I've seen mention of contextualised offers in this Oxbridge thread. Hang on... do these actually exist?

Some Cambridge colleges have introduced a "flexible offer" for maths - see www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate-admissions/what-qualifications-do-i-need. It's not clear what criteria the colleges will use, but the aim is to encourage disadvantaged and unrepresented groups to apply.

Yes, STEP results come out at the same time as A-levels. You don't get a certificate though - I think you need to download something from the website within a reasonably short time frame. I can try and find out the exact details on this!

There is some info on how to access STEP results here, where it does also say you can download a "statement of results". From the student room it does say that this disappears after 2 months, so it's a good idea to download and save it!

Sorry - banging on about STEP again :-) It is important to note that there will no longer be a formula book given out with the papers!

Thanks. ds did mention the formulas to me & said he didn't see that as a problem.

ds2 went to Cambridge Maths from an 'ordinary non-selective comp'. After a lot of encouragement they eventually put on a handful of STEP sessions, but mostly he had to do it himself.

To Little space and others in the same position: the independent motivation, determination, time management and organisation, sheer hard work and hours spent (as well as the maths conquered) in doing independent STEP are an excellent preparation for the Cambridge Maths course. It is challenging. But if they love maths, once they get immersed in it, they will enjoy it. If they don't love maths in that way, then they are applying for the wrong course!

Happy to chat off board about STEP prep, if anyone wants any advice.

The fourth year of the Tripos (called part III) has lots of different courses, and you can specialise in just theoretical physics. Part III is basically a "masters" year, so people would be moving after having finished their first degree.

But you can also specialise in applied maths and theoretical physics within the Maths Tripos. Students who have done that don't actually do better at part III (in these areas) than students coming from Nat Sci.

More generally, in the UK we have always had a very broad definition of Maths. Undergraduate degrees in Maths in the UK will offer modules in theoretical physics, engineering maths, computer science, theoretical biology, management science - indeed, in most departments this will be >50% of the courses offered, as (pure) mathematics typically represents less than half of the department.

I think it is really, really damaging to perpetuate the myth that Maths is much harder than neighbouring subjects such as physical sciences at Cambridge. This image is clearly part of why the diversity of Cambridge Maths remains so poor: far lower representation of women than on other top RG Maths courses, and lower representation of minority groups too.

BTW I would also highlight that theoretical physicists don't always stick to the physics courses at part III and do perfectly fine at e.g. differential geometry courses too.

Thank you roisin, pallando and uzfrdiop.

He is good at the independent learning and as you say this will stand him in good stead wherever he ends up.

If I have understood correctly about half of those with offers make it in on results day? Of that successful 50%, a third miss their STEP offer.

About half of those who get offers get places at results day (about 500 offers and about 250 places).

From the Jesus College website "...across all the Cambridge Colleges, only about 170 out of our 250 students have two grade 1's or better in STEP.". Some of those might have been given a 1,2 offer though.