Scottish universities

[LoniceraJaponica]

I believe that degrees at Scottish universities are usually over four years. Does this mean that the first year is slightly easier for English students who may have covered some of the coursework in their A levels? Do they get a shock in the second year when they actually have to do some work?

DD is taking a gap year and her friends who are in Scotland seem to party all the time and do very little work. Her friends at English universities party less and have more work to do, or are they just more conscientious?

DD has applied to St Andrews and Edinburgh and they've been the first two to offer. I think she likes to flexibility and also the chance to study modules that link in with her main subject.

St Andrews she'll do her main subject for two years, as well as two others. If she discovers her main subject isn't for her, as long as she's worked hard at the other two subjects and there's space, she can transfer to one of the other subjects she's studied.

Edinburgh, to start with she'll study another main alongside her main and I understand has to do a module from two other subject areas. Her main is substantable development and she's considering polictics, geogragraphy, sociology (and I can't remember the other which sit well alongside her main.

St Andrews is a fantastic course for her and she's the sort to enjoy socieities rather than nightclubs so great. She just has to consider if it's a step too far from home - approx eight hours on train.

Does this mean that the first year is slightly easier for English students who may have covered some of the coursework in their A levels? Do they get a shock in the second year when they actually have to do some work?

Setting aside the offensiveness of this comment ... let's deal with your misunderstanding of the structure of Scottish education (at the elite level, at any rate).

The first two years of Scottish Hons degrees are far more wide-ranging than English degrees (I've worked at elite universities in both countries). English students, trained in 3 A levels, expecting to read one (or 2 in a Combined Hons degree) may well get a shock about the limitations and narrowness of their understanding of scholarship in their chosen subject.

Scottish Highers cover far more ground - pupils are expected to study a range of subjects, not just 3. This breadth continues into the first 2 years of their university studies. It comes out of Edinburgh's position as the centre of the Northern Enlightenment in the 18th century - Edinburgh's position as a secular university put it way ahead of most English universities which still required a religious affiliation to the Church of England - this gave Scotland the edge in science & medicine, for example.

It's the model that was successfully exported to the USA, Canada, and Australia, all of which have 4 year Hons degrees which start with a broad-based mix of subjects (usually requiring a mix of science & arts, and sometimes also requiring a language other than English).

So the OP's assumptions about the "easiness" of the 1st year at Glasgow or Edinburgh for English students may well be based on a lack of knowledge about the system.

Yes, it is easier for English students, OP.
When I went to a Scottish uni from England to study medicine, the Scots med students were in some cases only 16, having come straight from their Highers in fifth year of secondary school.
They found the biochemistry course tough whereas it was a doddle for those of us with A level chemistry.
Also, having to dissect corpses at 16 was rather daunting. A couple of extra years maturity was a help.
Nowadays, most Scots uni students have stayed one extra year at school to do Advanced Highers, whereas the English have done two years in the sixth form for A levels, so ours are still a year ahead. It keeps costs down to put English kids straight into second year for a lot of courses, where they’ve covered the work already, particularly in maths or science subjects.
Scots uni’s are less specialised in first year, a bit like the American system, and are a less abrupt transition from easy school work to intellectually challenging uni work.
It means kids who don’t know what they want to study can delay final subject choices for longer.

I am English and did a Scottish degree and enjoyed the first year - it was good to get settled into independent study habits, and find my feet a bit before the work really cranked up. I didn't find it a gap year at all, just a manageable learning curve - straight A student.

I should add that I have had a lot of home problems before I went, and struggled with depression. I really valued the space and time to build my confidence - chose A Very Good Scottish Uni over Oxbridge, in part, for that reason. Hothousing would have put me back to square 1 in terms of MH

Advanced Highers are worth more UCAS points than A- levels though so I don't think you can argue that someone with A- levels is ahead of someone with Advanced Highers. dS2 has 3As at AH which is the points equivalent of 3As at A level (there is no A grade in Scottish qualifications).
First year modules may be no harder than AH or A- level but you have to do 6 of them, 3 per semester, with less help, often in new subjects while learning how to live independently, not what I would call a skive!

@Walkingdeadfangirl
Scottish 'government' specifically decided to make sure English students had to pay. The EU did NOT force Scotland to specifically charge only English students.

Please stop spreading fake-news hatred about the Scots. The N. Irish and Welsh also pay. Scotland has to pay EU fees because EU law forces it to, but does not force it to pay N. Irish or Welsh or English fees. The fees of the poor persecuted English are 100% the result of British government policy and the individual universities.

I have apologised umpteen times to those posters who have found my OP offensive. Please understand, that I did not mean to offend.

In my very limited experience the A level students I know who are currently in their first year at a Scottish university are not finding it as demanding as they expected. They have plenty of free time. Perhaps they are misusing their free time when they should be working. Maybe they will get a shock when the work ramps up. I don't know.

How many times to I have to grovel on this thread?

IME it's rare for people to go to university at sixteen.

You wouldn’t get into Glasgow to read medicine from S5 and you need AHs, plus (from experience) I’m pretty sure you need to turn 18 by the end of the October in the first year. Edinburgh also requires AHs for medicine, Aberdeen does not take S5 entrants.

DC is doing an engineering degree - some of the 1st year courses he had covered at AH but some of the specialist topics were new and not covered by AHs or A levels.

ronatheseal walkingdeadfangirl is anti EU, so don’t take her comments to heart.

The question is if English students "feel so unwelcome" then why are there so many of them at Scottish universities ?

I don't think they do feel unwelcome. The ones I know have had a ball this term.

Exactly !

DD's BF is now back home from Glasgow. He says that in Glasgow the general consensus is that in year 1 you party all night and sleep all day and don't do any work, in year 2 you work all day and party all night and in years 3 and 4 you work all day and work all night.

Hello,

The difficulty and work load for each four year course depends on the subject and the University studied at.

However, overall the first three years as classed as getting a degree and the fourth year is the honours year. Most employers will ask for 2.2 or 1st class degrees and you get this within the fourth year. I generally believe that 1st year is not the equivalent of A-level but a grade higher than that (college). 1st year is level 8/9 modules, second year level 9, third year, level 10, I believe.

You do have to work very hard at any university in order to get a 1st class degree though!

Also,

First year students have less classes, contact hours. However, this is because the university will give them more time to get used to university and adapt to the work load and the assignment methods. As a student very high up in higher education (phd) I find that first year students yes party but so do second and third year students. They all party but its all about time management and find that work/life balance.

Generally in 1st year they do not spend half as much time as they should on assignments or studying for exams. Thats not because its to easy for them but because they are adults and choose to party over doing the work. It is probably also because (in my university at least) that 1st and 2nd year grades do not count towards the overall degree classification but all grades from 3rd year and on do!

You really need to visit the campus, talk to the lecturers and get to know what the 1st year teaching timetable is like before you judge every university based on the few experiences you have heard off. There are excellent universities in Scotland. The ones I would recommend (depending on subject area, please tell me and I can advise further):

• Glasgow University *Strathclyde University *Stirling University (allows students to change degree subject up and until end of year 2, very flexible option).
• Edinburgh University
• Heriott-Watt University in Edinburgh (have heard that is ranked high)

I guess the first year at a Scottish university is similar to a foundation year in England.

Edinburgh was DDs final choice, mainly as the entry requirements were lower than her other choices (ABB) so she applied as an insurance policy.

They did offer but at much higher grades than those published so it won't be a consideration for her. Although it's a lovely place, accommodation is expensive and bursaries are limited.