Would you - Lower RG uni or Non RG but high on league tables?

[Demeldark]

All other things being equal. Is it better to apply for a lower down RG university of a higher up the league table non RG?

Like I said all other things being equal.

Could Count be using humble as an opposite to entitled, arrogant etc? It is not unknown for kids to emerge from private/MC state schools unwilling to get their hands dirty, and so see employment as a continuum of GCSEs, A Levels, DOE, Grade 8 viola, and 2.1 from a RG University.

A lot depends on the job, but for many employers I would expect wider skills come into play.

Have a look at some of the places new graduates at companies the person wants to work at went to to get an idea of where they tend to go. For some jobs institution does not matter and in others it does.

Give us an example of two institutions - one RG and one not and we can have a go at assessing which might be better regarded for the higher paid jobs.

I find CountFosco's post a bit depressing.

My DS's a student at Bath now. But sadly was never in a sports team, didn't do DofE gold, isn't grade 8 in some instrument, and is working as a cleaner over the summer holidays.

I hope whoever screens his CV for his placement year doesn't see the word "Bath", and have already decided he's too middle class to be employed. I thought recruiters were trained not to be prejudiced - obviously not!

My DS had a mix of RG and non RG on his list last year. He plumped for non RG as firm over RG for his insurance. Both wanted exactly the same grades and both have v good research scores. He got grades he needed and is v happy after his first year. It came down to course for him. There are great non RG Unis out there.

I hope whoever screens his CV for his placement year doesn't see the word "Bath", and have already decided he's too middle class to be employed. I thought recruiters were trained not to be prejudiced - obviously not!

Given that he has no sports, DofE etc then his CV isn't likely to be full of extra-curricular fluff is it. Hopefully it'll be tailored to the actual role being applied for.

Agree with Titcy.

Employers, surely, are looking for people who will be good employees. Grade 8 viola may make no difference, whereas turning up to work on time each day, working with others and a willingness to get stuck in, ought to help.

Hi OP,

You mention computer science. If it is this degree, or along those lines, then as a recent graduate (Southampton) I can probably help. RGs have good reputations, you can't go wrong. What you want to look for in STEM degrees is the uptake of good summer and sandwich year internships. If companies are reaching out to the students you know the course is good value. Eg. The electronics and computer science department society at Southampton (ECSS) was well sponsored with regular company talks. Nearly all my friends from uni are well employed.
The second thing is course content. You want to look for breath of study for years 1&2 for exposure, it will help identify skills and interests, then the opportunity for depth in 3rd. It is also a good idea to go for a uni that has integrated masters degrees too. Then if DC find uni great and wants a masters it is most affordable and can just be switched onto if they meet the criteria. I personally dropped from MSci to BSci because I didn't like uni and wanted to start earning.
If DC has a career in mind look for the courses with modules that develop skills for this. Eg a computer science course with lots of programming and software design modules if they want to go into commercial software development. Lots of web/design/front end if they want to become a UX designer or FE developer. Cyber security modules, algorithms and cryptography if they want to go into security. If they're more inclined to be academic and stay for post-graduate study then look at the departments research areas.
Some employers look for uni names but many (especially those with big apprenticeship numbers) look for the skills and only want a 2:1/1st from any uni in the right area to tick a box. Eg they rarely hire from the most academic institutions (oxbridge) because they're too academically focused and not necessarily good in the areas the business needs them to be.
League tables are a bit hit and miss for UG really. It's quite easy for unis to drop and rise year on year.
At the same time avoid non-RGs with a reputation.

For those saying things like DofE, Grade 8 musical instrument won't be looked at on CVs as it is seen as MC privilege, won't young people who have been disadvantaged so wouldn't have access to such things, wouldn't probably have access to other opportunities eg certain work placements, which are taken into account when looking at CVs?

DS(13) has to work hard to get his academic grades. He is also working hard to get musical grades, don't think he will reach Grade 8. He currently does Scouts and will look to do DofE. He is a quiet, shy boy and has really push himself to do some of the activities in Scouts and DofE will be a challenge for him. So, surely some of the qualities he has to achieve these things, should be ones employers are looking for. Not disregarded because he could potentially be seen as MC.

wouldn't probably have access to other opportunities eg certain work placements,

The debate was about placement years in a degree. There shouldn't be any barrier to a student from a disadvantaged background being able to access a placement. Given that they're usually paid this makes them quite attractive to disadvantaged students!

I don't think anyone is arguing that such activities don't demonstrate good qualities, just that it's good that employers aren't swayed by such things, and are aware that such things are inaccessible for many.

DH used to be involved with recruiting technical people for a global chemical company (eg science PhDs, MEng type level) . The loose rule of thumb was that they tended to like candidates to have one interest pursued to a high level, two was ok but more that that might cast doubt over the person's priorities. (And this was of course secondary to technical ability etc). Something like DofE might be interesting or not depending on whether it would have likely been a genuine challenge to the candidate.

OP - as to your original question, I think it would depend how low ranked the RG University is. Some have a poor reputation for teaching as too focused on research. But I wouldn't pick based on this alone - there's bound to be factors like location, course content, class size, pastoral support etc that are at least a bit different, and probably more important.

If employment prospects of the two universities are the concern, you can get a sense of that by looking at DLHE stats (Destination of Leavers from Higher Education), a survey which shows % of graduates in graduate level employment 6 months after graduating.

I'd echo the PP who said that placements are important. Speaking to colleagues in our Computer Science department, they are the most influential factor in helping graduates secure good jobs. Again, you should be able to see this by comparing employment rates for Year in Industry and standard variants of the same degree at the same uni. That info should be publicly available if the Year in Industry variant has enough students and is available as a UCAS route.

My DS's a student at Bath now. But sadly was never in a sports team, didn't do DofE gold, isn't grade 8 in some instrument, and is working as a cleaner over the summer holidays. smile

Actually working as a cleaner would put him head and shoulders above the identikit CVs I saw from kids that had every opportunity but never worked. We've recruited new graduates because they could talk intelligently about their uni projects AND had gone back to the same shelf stacking job every summer. We knew they were a good worker because they kept being given the same job each year. That tells me they are honest, reliable, have no ego and hard working.

As far as work placements go then in STEM subjects the industrial placements are generally paid. I do agree the unpaid placements in some fields perpetuate inequality, BIL is an architect and they are rife in his industry and obviously industries like fashion and journalism are the same. They are missing out on talent by excluding children from poorer backgrounds.

OP - I’m not sure if it’s already been mentioned but has your DC considered a degree apprenticeship? My DC was accepted to study computing science but has decided to go ahead with a degree apprenticeship instead. They will graduate in 4 years with an honours degree in Software Engineering from the same university that they had as their firm via UCAS - with the added benefit of four years work experience and no debt (fees paid and a salary for four years). The downside is that you don’t get the same university experience but my DC weighed up the pros and cons and decided the apprenticeship was the right route for them. There are some excellent degree apprenticeships with firms that would be the target employer for many graduating with a comp science degree.

I got 4 grade 8s (hours of work) and couldn't get a graduate job for ages when all most on my course could. I applied to about 140 firms and had 25 interviews in London before at last I got one - i was applying when I was on my degree. Amusing in the one job offer I did get the man interviewing me had a brother who organised the three choirs festival and I did loads of choral singing (which by the way costs zero other than the cycle ride to a church I suppose or walk if you can't afford a bike) - but I will never know if that swung it. I also had over a year of weekly volunteering giving advice in a law centre which the university arranged. It is hard to know what the key factor in an interview sometimes but I doubt anyone would be against someone whose hobby is music. Mind you sport helps. My grade 8 daughter cellist..... she has often been asked about sports in interviews because they like someone who can work as part of a team, turn up at practices whatever the weather, suceed, win etc.... most universities have sports teams although I suppose if you are really short of money you might be working most of the weekend in a shop so not have the time but a lot of people could make some time for it.

Some of us have done cleaning and have the grade 8s. i did a domestic assistant residential job after A levels and then at least one other summer, then did a course at that place to train to be a child group leader and then did the child group work in holidays instead (it was a bit of a step up from the cleaing and catering for the children work)

I am not an employer (or rather I employ a carer for my mother, where retention is my absolute focus as recruitment is a nightmare), but would imagine that employers are looking for evidence of the wider skill sets that they need, depending on the job.

DD has always done a lot, though no music. Looking back the things that have probably given her the most resilience and maturity have been sport and a ski season.

Sport was brilliant. In year eleven she was involved in two sports at county/regional level which meant 20 hours of training outside school each week and then competition and matches. Time management, coping with failure/loss, listening to instructions, working in a team.

The ski season was equally good. She was an underpaid and exploited skivvy. The management was awful, and several colleagues did not pull their weight and were sent home. Some guests were very demanding, expecting 5* service for a budget price. But it was brilliant. She saw it through to the end, can make a bed or whip up a meal in double quick time, and has learnt how to work with others, how not to sweat the small stuff but also stick up for herself politely when things are unacceptable. And she and her friends had fun, and perfected their 360s.

I suspect, though Count can correct, that it is not just about what you do (MC box ticking), but what employability skills you can claim to have got from any experience.

Haven't rt whole thread (I know, sorry!). But in answer to Op question -ds uni is not an RG but is ranked no 1 in The World for his course. It was the only obvious choice for him (despite offers from the big hitters like Durham).