Oxbridge Applicants 2019

[evenstrangerthings]

The 2018 Oxbridge Applicants Thread was started at the end of August last year, but with many students now sitting internal school exams rather than public AS exams, many will have Year 12 results in hand and some will be starting to prepare for applications to Oxford or Cambridge University.

Let's support each other in supporting our kids through this process, which may involve extra exams, multi-day interviews and extra application statements.

Do feel free to join the thread, even if your DC is on the fence about making an Oxbridge application. It would also be great to hear from those who have been through the Oxbridge process before!

Needmoresleep it's not either burning the midnight oil or don't get a first, that's my point. But yes, approaches very clearly vary and it can be very difficult to adopt a more strategic approach if you're more of a have to cover all bases type of student. It's just that that can tip people over the edge at Oxford, or at least reduce the overall quality of the experience, which is a real shame.

As an Oxford medic, DS1 was quizzed at two of his four interviews there about what he did to relax. They very clearly recognize it as a need, not a luxury, or as a sign of lack of commitment etc.

Its not the point I made either . There will be plenty for whom natural ability and a genuine interest will take them to a first. But others, without the same talent, who get to the same place by slogging.

I dont see it is that much different from school where some parents would get very wound up if their DC was not in top set maths. When often top of the second set would have been more comfortable and more fun. At times "Oxbridge" feels like top set. Yes have a go, and let them select you. They may get it wrong, either by missing a potentially strong student, or by accepting a student who then has to work very hard to keep up. (Or who does not fit with the teaching style or something.) We have known students who have struggled, both from the state and private sectors. Sometimes the problem can be guessed: lots of tutoring at A level, a perfectionist or competitive personality. Sometimes students just don't seem to have settled academicaly and socially.

There is a lot of odd pressure associated with Oxbridge. I ended up having to ask my MiL to pipe down. She had not gone to University but got unhelpfully excited when DS and his cousin were applying. I am not sure that it helps to suggest that it all comes down to finding the right strategic approach. There will be a range of abilities, and some are going to have to put the work in. And for many, or their families, having to resit or repeat a year will seem more of a failure than if say, they did the same at Newcastle or LSE.

There is also an odd English cultural thing that achievement should be effortless. Or at least seen to be effortless. Its not something that overseas students, whether American, European or Asian seem to do, whether at school or University. In their eyes, achievement is often earned and this is something to be proud of.

Being half Scot, half Pole I can't say I identify too readily with the English effortless achievement thing Needmoresleep :) My advice, based on lots of DC and their peers at contemporary Oxford (as opposed to the Oxford of Sebastian Flyte), was simply to try to take the greatest care not to over work. It's a very real danger at Oxford and absolutely doesn't guarantee success (as measured by class of degree), but can lead to enormous, but unproductive stress. Much easier said than done, unfortunately.

Needmoresleep strategy is all when it comes to Oxford final exams, if you're looking for a first.

goodbyestranger, you're a Scot! You've kept that one under your bonnet, you sly rogue.

Only savants get a first 'effortlessly'. For everyone else, there will be varying levels of effort to be made. Oxbridge has so much to offer, that you're closing yourself off to an abundance of opportunities, experiences and friendships if you are working yourself into the ground, not to mention the damage to your mental health.

As you say Needmoresleep, walking that work/life tightrope is a good skill to learn.

I don't know if Classics is easier to get into than History, but I suppose in terms of the volumes of applicants/candidates, Classics is (presumably, I have't looked at any figures!) a smaller pool. Clearly you still have to have quality, but there are fewer people you are jostling with to get in. I couldn't speak abut the quality of each pool, I'm sure they are equally filled with luminaries and duffers.

@Needmoresleep and @Goodbyestranger , Oh I love the comments about "effortless achievement" . DS absolutely put effort in , but he appeared to have the ability ( and indeed I would say it takes confidence as well) to work out how much work he could do and remain sane. He worked and revised. But I think he knew when to stop and go and do something else. A friend of his had to rusticate through stress. It is a life skill to apportion your effort.

I ( many years ago) and DS recently have no truck with the " Oh I've done nothing but ha ha I appear to have got a first" . DS was equally happy to say - no not coming out this evening , I have an essay to get in , as to say - no not coming to library with you , playing squash / going out with friends.

The idea of effortless brilliance I think rather died out after the Renaissance . Some are rather more pragmatic now.

Ds needed up with a very good degree. He was nervous before results but that was because of some horrid questions and one exam he rather buggered up his timing. He never thought having studied from 6am till 2am every day would have made a difference.

But yes some will work longer hours either because there are things they feel they need to consolidate more , or because they think it is a weaker subject for them , or because of natural inclination , or through lack of confidence they have "got it".

Just on the Classics thing - I am not sure Classics is an easier subject. to " get in for" . Yes fewer people applying per place , but probably each of those people is very motivated. One of Ds's best friends is doing Classics - he did both Latin and Greek at school. A number of his cohort did not do either at school but ( at least Oxford ) have a way of getting a place without having previously studied either. I presume those people are pretty determined and clever.

Ended up - not needed up -

All of this you don't need effort to get a first is probably going to put a lot of people off, not only from this thread but also from applying. Most people will feel this doesn't apply to them and may well extrapolate to this means that their dc is not someone who would fit into Oxbridge. It also risks those who are struggling believing that they are rubbish because they do need to put effort in.

You don't need to be so clever that an Oxbridge degree is effortless. It's essential that students balance work/play well, but it's absolutely fine and normal for it to be a slog and for it to seem really difficult.

Yes, OhYouBadBadKitten. Ds says that his college mates are mostly ferociously clever yet they all have to do a lot of work. The ones who do onerous activities such as choir or rowing moan a lot. I think if you want to skate through a degree with a minimal amount of work you choose another university. One of ds's friends doing same degree elsewhere has to do two essays a term as opposed to ds's one a week, plus has reading weeks. And no work in the holidays. Ds has to hand in a ten million word essay or something like that on the first day of term.

OhYouBadBadKitten. If you read the posts properly you'll see that no-one is saying firsts come effortlessly.

What I said was that knowing how much to do to keep teachers happy at school is a valuable skill to carry forward to Oxford, since too much work can be at worst positively harmful (both to emotional health and results) and at best do no good. Knowing how much work to do to keep the tutors happy (which by definition means attending all tutorials with essays in hand, and having something reasonable to say) does not carry with it any implication of effortlessness, not indeed of not being fully engaged with one's subject. Needmoresleep slipped that idea in, no-one else. I think you might want to read again, more carefully.

For all those with DC who work too hard, who are complete perfectionists, my advice would be that the DC should try to curb those traits or perhaps go elsewhere, not to Oxford, unless their emotional health is very, very secure (which it often isn't with perfectionists).

Irma, I guess if any student gets a first having 'skated through a degree with minimal effort' one simply has to doff a cap and say 'All credit!', rather than be mean minded and say s/he shouldn't have gone there. Because it clearly happens. Also, one has to ask the question: why put in more effort than that required to bag any particular prize, particularly if it might negatively impact other aspects of life? But then I think judging that correctly is an art, not a science, possibly hence particular posters' responses :)

Yes well I've just re-read the last couple of pages OhYouBadBadKitten, to be sure of what was written and I can't anywhere see why you should have a problem with anything said. No-where does anyone say what you said they said.

Do I dare post? I will.
My DD is a wonderful perfectionist. She's going to Oxbridge. I bet a fair few who apply are. I expect her to navigate her way around the course and adjust to the new environment.
I'm sure at colleges and at home, more mature adults will talk through about not comparing yourselves to others and to go on your own academic journey of progress. My DD is very self aware - she will curb and work on her perfectionism just as others may have to work on their traits - could it be arrogance in some?

Best wishes to allx

I have DC (my DDs rather than DSs) who are perfectionists too, and have had to navigate their way through Oxford's competing demands. What do you mean by arrogance though? Who might be being arrogant? Those who insist on perfectionism regardless of the burden? I'm confused.

Sorry, it sounded facetious I realised before you posted. I mean some students will coast at school and realise once at Oxbridge 'oh, I need to get my finger out, others know as much as me and things I don't know.' Am thinking it might be a wake up call for some to be amongst such successful learners and realise there is a lot more to learn .

Hope that makes sense, am at work! multi-tasking!

This thread has taken a turn for the peculiar. Can we diversify by talking about how to craft the perfect personal statement, and choosing college on the basis of which one has the best mascot or colours?

Yes I agree with that voilets. I think people have jumped on 'minimum effort' and 'the bare minimum' perhaps without bothering to stop and think that at Oxford that's still a fair amount of work, with constant checks in the shape of weekly or twice weekly tutorials. Why it should irk people that some get firsts with minimum effort (which is still effort) I really don't know. The only argument for anything more is that one positively enjoys doing additional work but once the enjoyment stops and the sense of burden begins - call time.

Christ,
I thought this was a thread to help parents of kids going to apply to either Cambridge or Oxford, I will never be in that place, thick kids compared to you lot. But have a friend's who's DD may do, no way would I even suggest they read this.
One upmanship every where, I or my child just turns up, doesn't need to work hard or just plays rugger/rows and gets a first.
Then we return to type, if you don't want to work hard you go elsewhere/lesser universities and piss around.
FFS. Then Cambridge and Oxford wonder why no one from Hull and Holderness and WC backgrounds bothers to apply.

My son's off this Sunday, to a lower university to study a mickey mouse degree, Criminology ( that's MN's new Media Studies), he has had a reading list of over 250 relevant links and a required book list of 5 compulsory books, 3 with nearly 1000 pages each, and costing over £250 to buy and a further 25 books of interest.

Snobbery at it's finest, the Alumni, current and future students of the two finest universities in the country. I am sure the 100's of Oxford SU, will be delighted this thread is possibly open to the kids their advert in the pages of press was targeting, will be one of the first they goggle for help.

Well, DD has chosen to apply for Keble, having considered an open application. She got the opportunity to visit some of the colleges while at UNIQ.

She likes the fact that the college is close to the museum and labs, that the accommodation is available for three years, that the pricing for accommodation is very clearly available on the webpage and also that it's a college that is founded on inclusivity and she feels continues this tradition, we are state school!

Also, the college does take the highest number of places for her chosen subject.

She's the sort that will fit in wherever though and is aware many don't get their chosen college should they even be successful in their application. She's a flexible soul.

Back on track

User - my dd is bothering to apply. This thread has been incredibly useful, just gone off its tangent the last few days. We don't have access to information that might help an application. Neither DH or myself went to university and our school doesn't get many to Oxbridge.

User it's useful to warn about the very real pitfalls of over work. I'm sorry if you find that difficult to get your head around. Some students at both universities - however fine - have an absolutely miserable time on account of it. Tutors are keenly of the problem. It's a serious issue, not helped by those doing a knee jerk reaction like you. That kind of issue goes way beyond how to crack a personal statement and whether to wear H&M or Chanel to interview. Apologies for getting too serious.

Justanothermile
Good for Dd.
I would have directed that Girl, Ds2 BF to here, year 10. shit school, predicted 7-9 in GCSE, but no way now, she lives with brilliant foster carers, she would never apply for any university, if she reads last 3 pages on here.
She intelligent, so cant say don't read last 3 pages.
Christ you lot are like vultures. It clear from this thread Cambridge and Oxford lie when they say to kids like that girl we are for you, bollocks, you lot apart from anothermile are all ex Alumni and grammar/public school users.

She will be better of at Lancaster, Newcastle or Glasgow with people who understand her and will appreciate how hard it has been and will be for her.

I despair.

Justanothermile, another great thing about Keble is it's right next to the University Parks!

aware

goodbyestranger, I think you dropped this in your previous note.

Actually
I don't think this thread has taken a strange turn, many of the posters and their views are repeated on many secondary and higher education threads, many are quick to post on the lower rank university threads and the snobbery of universities with the same views and arguments.

Mumsnet isn't for parents of kids like mine, we are constantly reminded degrees like Criminology are mickey mouse and a waste of time/student finance, usually by you lot.
I think they have showed their true colours, not gone off piste

Are you OK, user? You sound distressed.

All I can say for myself is I am an alumnus, that's my contribution to the discussion. If I was not an alumnus, I wouldn't/couldn't venture an opinion. I feel a bit damned in that respect!