Oxbridge Applicants 2019

[evenstrangerthings]

The 2018 Oxbridge Applicants Thread was started at the end of August last year, but with many students now sitting internal school exams rather than public AS exams, many will have Year 12 results in hand and some will be starting to prepare for applications to Oxford or Cambridge University.

Let's support each other in supporting our kids through this process, which may involve extra exams, multi-day interviews and extra application statements.

Do feel free to join the thread, even if your DC is on the fence about making an Oxbridge application. It would also be great to hear from those who have been through the Oxbridge process before!

That's great, thank you Pallando :) a few masochists in there then

Thank you for the outreach work that you do, it proved to be very reassuring.

For example, some colleges ask for STEP I grades for engineering students.
I think it's only a couple (DD was very glad she wasn't pooled to one of them!) but yes, very important applicants check the requirements or 'strongly preferred ' subjects for the colleges they're interested in applying to for any subject.

The word DS was substituted for he's in my earlier post and I overlooked this change...*

goodbye*, I don't think it suits DD's character to have something she would consider 'hanging over her'. I think she's at the stage where she wants the application in now, in order that she can concentrate on Y13.

It's my regret really that we left too many open days until the autumn term with DS, we've done all but one already for DD at that is Saturday and local. We didn't know better at that stage though, university is a whole new experience for all of us, which is patently obvious I should imagine!

Y13 is so full on, fewer distractions seem good.

Interested in general feedback from this supportive thread...

DD is in year 13 and thinking of applying to Oxford or Cambridge. At GCSE, she got 9 in Maths, plus 8 x A. She's predicted AA*A at A level. The problem is, she has until now been torn between History or Classics at degree level -- and has done literally zero extra work or background reading. She is obviously clever but is also very good at working out how to keep the teachers happy with the bare minimum of effort.

She hasn't even started on her personal statement and her school says if people are in that position then they shouldn't bother. I think it's worth giving it a try, although I'm really not sure how she will pad out the personal statement... My hope is that by applying she will finally gain some motivation and get some reading done in the hope that she will at least get an interview. Am I deluded? (Background: DH and I both went to Oxford in the 80s/90s so have an idea of what's involved; what really seems to have changed is how clued-up and professional other people's children seem to be...)

Yes, the internet is a wonderful thing, but information is available to everybody!

Frankly I was thrilled to be able to find so much info online when ds was applying, as he went to an ordinary comprehensive school who doggedly peddled the line that every uni (sic) is the same and the guidance he received from them was a big fat zero.

Otoh it grieves me when one goes to a favoured spot on a day out and suddenly 100,000 other people have found it due to Tripadvisor etc.

PantTwizzler - do you think she might benefit from delaying by a year - is it likely she'd mature a bit and buckle down to some independent background reading etc or would she just drift?

You know what studying at Oxford is like - is she likely to be able to up her game from 'very good at working out how to keep the teachers happy with the bare minimum of effort.' which I'm guessing won't really cut it among a cohort who are all very clever.

Errol there's a relatively wide range of academic ability at Oxford (and presumably Cambridge, although perhaps it's more uniform at Cambridge), and a wide range of attitudes too, in terms of approaches to work (not sure it's about maturity as such). I think being very good at working out to keep the teachers happy with the bare minimum of effort sounds very laudable. In my view that approach can reap huge benefits - one of my DS's graduated recently with a very nice class of degree but with lots of other badges too, and his sanity completely in tact. He loved the whole experience - some of the very hard workers don't.

Thanks Errol and GS.

I definitely think that my degree was mainly in the fine art of bullshit (which has generally served me well in life) but I think I became a bullshitter rather than started out as one... I'm not sure admissions tutors are particularly impressed by that.

I think DD would likely drift and get pretty depressed if she didn't apply now with the rest of her cohort. She's talking about a gap year but can get herself organised to actually plan any of that either.

She does really want to go (has been to various open days etc) but doesn't seem to be able to find her mojo. Perhaps, like me, she will be better for a bit of pressure. We've come up with a reading list and we're going to discuss what she's read. Major progress. (I do think this should come from her rather than me, but...)

She is obviously clever but is also very good at working out how to keep the teachers happy with the bare minimum of effort.

That’s the way - minimum effort for maximum reward. You have to hit the sweet spot. I ran it a little close, but just managed to get away with it.

PantTwizzler, it’s not even a question - Classics all the way. There’s a lot of history you can do in Classics, so your DD can scratch that itch without having to commit fully.

Eeeeeeequally (and I say this with love, and envy) Historians are dossers. It’s a dosser’s delight. So that may appeal to your DD too. Lots to consider! But seriously. Do Classics.

Goodbyestranger - all work and no play, a bad idea for sure; winging it a bit may work better in some subjects than others.

PantTwizzler - well, from that it sounds like she should be encouraged to get into gear now, this may focus her mind and - whatever the outcome - give her a bit of a wake up call.

Well they won't know if you're bullshitting, if you're good enough at it :) Anyhow, point is she's clever. It's cleverness that counts, not being a card carrying member of the goody goody sorority.

Cross posts!

Yes, he was a History boy! :) But emerged with a first! :)

Thanks, hingle, that made me smile.

Another bad/good thing was me discovering (from this thread!) that she’s missed the deadline for applying for a choral scholarship at Oxford. She’d been to a choral open day and I assumed she was clued up. Not so. She was incredibly vague and naive about it. She’s realistic that she only had an outside chance of getting a choral scholarship, but still I think it’s quite a shock for her to realise that that door is now firmly shut.

re "bare minimum of effort" ( & I speak only of one example - i.e. DS here )

I am not entirely convinced that a bare minimum of effort gets you a good degree at Oxford as opposed to GCSEs for example - assuming you get in. What I would say , is that my Ds was very pragmatic and did enough work to get a nice degree. He has spoken of friends of his who in his opinion did far too much work, and here I agree with @Goodbyestranger He thought if you are fairly organised and know what you need to know , & indeed interested and motivated then there is plenty of time for other stuff so you enjoy your time there . Some of his peers he thought spent too much time "over" working . I suppose it depends what you call "bare minimum."

I would say from memory ( re interview) that DS spoke of things he had read outside his school syllabus at (Oxford) interview - but this was not hugely practised or prepared , he just has an interest in his subject so it came out of his "lizard" brain if you see what I mean. Ie he had read outside the syllabus but not in a very specific "preparing for interview way" ., although there are some texts for his subject which tend to be considered as "ok - you'll have read that" so he read them. The one thing he did think about, which came in handy, was one interview he had the interviewer said at the start " So what do you want to talk about Basilisk Junior ? " Best advice his subject teacher gave him was , think about what you would like to talk about. Obviously the interview led on from there ( in less comfortable directions ) but at least he got 5 mins or so in that one interview on something he liked so he could settle in. ( & lovely interviewer for doing so )

I would not advocate doing the bare minimum, rather consider the economy of your effort. Not all of us are capable of getting a first, and if we bust a gut to get 69.1 in our exams, then that’s pretty deflating.

Yes I was advocating the Basilisk Junior approach rather than never going near a history book approach, but PantTwizzler's DD has laid her groundwork well by the sounds of it. DS3 was the same, easy ride through GCSEs, had a bit of a shock in Y12 exams, recovered from the shock sufficiently to miss his grades at A level, Oxford took him anyway and he then recovered from that shock to pitch it just right and bag a first. I can see moments in his career where he might have fine tuned the approach a bit more successfully but oh well.

Aargh not DS3 - DS2. DS3 is quite different.

Italicising fail.

I think it depends on the individual student. DS goes for the approach of winging it to a certain degree, or rather I think needs a deadline to motivate. He still hasn't really found his passion and chose his maths degree because he's good at maths and quite likes it, rather than being passionate about the subject. I did not counsel this approach.

Dd loves to study for that reason in itself. She also needs to know she's covered all bases and is as prepared as possible, is highly organised and motivated. And passionate about her subject.

I doubt either could adopt the others approach and neither is right or wrong!

Neither is right or wrong but at Oxford knowing how to limit the work is very useful indeed. I don't think it implies lack of interest in the subject at all - DS2 is as interested in his subject as anyone else. He just likes other stuff too, and time is limited. At Oxford work can expand to fill any gap available, which isn't always a good thing. But a very individual thing I agree.

I didn't mean to imply lack of passion for anyone other than DS, or rather he hasn't found his yet. I saw some similarities with panttwizzler re her DD in what she had written about her at least. Although, I certainly don't think that's unusual at that age to not be certain exactly what you might want to do with your life or study etc. For DS, I sometimes think that creates apathy in his approach.

Useful information regarding work load at Oxford, thank you.

Ds is at the other place, but his experience is that he has to do more work than he has ever done. He pretty much winged it for GCSEs and A Levels (he got 4 A*s in Arts subjects) but now he can't. You have to read a lot and write about and defend it once a week. There is nowhere to hide. Also the holidays require one to produce long essays.

If you are a strong candidate, I'd advocate Classics, just for the relative ease of getting in rather than competing against hordes of hopeful historians.

Is it actually easier though Irma? Or does the quality of applicant mean it's the same? No idea, just wondering, on the basis that almost every grade at GCSE for Latin and Classical Greek seems to be A*.

I mean there'll be quite a few fluffy historians among the hopefuls - can the same be said with Classics?

Surely how much work someone has to do will vary:

1. Courses in quantitative subjects often work as building blocks. And some of them require you to put in the hours (a lot of ground is covered in a maths lecture so the big tip DS was given was to spend a couple of hours beforehand getting familiar with the topic, and then a few hours after going through to make sure you had a firm grasp, plus regular revision of early material.) Labs take time and then results need to be written up. And so on.

1. Students will have different amount of headroom. For example some will be well practiced in structuring University type essays, others not. Some will find first year maths a breeze, others will be working flat out to make sure they remain on top of content knowing that if they don't, second year be a nightmare. Some have practiced time management skills, perhaps through achievement in sport of music, or through holding down a part time job, others may have inefficient study habits. Dyslexic DD often seems to work less hard than her peers as her coping mechanism is to concentrate in lectures and rely on grasping topics quicklycombined with a good long term memory. If the concepts become more difficult her spare time would quickly disappear. (And why despite having the grades she did not apply to Oxbridge but opted a medicine course that offered early placements.)

1. Students will have different ambitions. Some who have always come top of the year at school will attempt to do the same at Oxbridge. Some will indeed find themselves top of the new cohort, but most will eventually adjust to being more "ordinary". A few wont, and either half kill themselves aiming for the top, or crash one way or another. Some may "need" a first, or 2.1 and have to make the required effort to achieve it. DS, in London, worked very hard indeed, both with course related stuff and extention type activities. But he was utterly absorbed in his subject, indeed had been since the age of 12, so beyond the odd 7 a side game, or amine film, was happy to put in the hours.

A friend had two sons study the same subject at Oxbridge. The school was confident that the first stood a strong chance, whereas the advice to the second was to "have a go" but not be too disappointed if he failed to get a place. Both did well academically, but the first had a lot more free time to spend pursuing other interests. Or look at the Boat Race crews. Rowing absorbs a huge amount of time but some medics or final year NatSci manage. Others though will quietly give up after a year or two, when the balancing becomes too tough. Not Oxbridge, but the athlete Laura Muir qualified as a vet whilst training/competing at top level, which vet students tell me is extraordinary.

In short, highly academic courses are demanding. There will be some who breeze through, others who burn lots of midnight oil, and others who accept they are not on for a first and readjust their priorities accordingly. DC knew several who, in retrospect, and for a variety of reasons including the workload, did not particuarly enjoy their time at University (about the same proportion at Oxbridge as elsewhere.) But good time management, being able to recognise your limitations, and knowing how to achieve a positive life-work balance are all life skills, so good lessons to learn.