Unconditional offers

[GnomeDePlume]

Is the expansion of unconditional offers distorting not just entry to higher education but also A level results themselves?

Fully admit this thought is totally based on a limited amount of anecdata.

In DD2's year 13 large numbers of students have been offered and accepted unconditional offers on a range of uni courses. As a result according to DD2 these students all 'took the foot off the gas' in terms of studies and then revision/preparation for exams. Less attentiveness to studies, less commitment to revision, willingness to go to parties in the run up to exams.

These are students DD2 has known all through school so has a good understanding of their attitudes to learning before the uni application process started.

As a result of the reduced intensity of study, these students are likely to perform less well at A level than they would have otherwise done.

If this picture were repeated across the country will this potentially impact on grade boundaries?

While this may be good for individual students is it bad for education as a whole?

Just musing on a Sunday morning but would be interested if other people had a view.

An interesting thought. At DD's school I get the impression that it is mostly the underachieving students who have recieved unconditional offers from lowly ranked universities. I think they just want bums on seats.

The exception seems to be Lincoln who are only offering unconditionals to the students with A grade predictions. It is a young university and they want to earn a good reputation.

Surely this will impact on the quality of the degree that these institutions are offering, and perhaps the quality of the teaching?

What do you mean large numbers? Are you sure your daughter isn't exaggerating?

My daughter did get an unconditional for law at Reading. She declined it and went for the conditional offer at a highly ranked Russel group. Many of her cohorts did the same.

I'd say it was unusual for a large number of students to get unconditionals then fuck about.

Their was a very similar post to this with similar comments about many students with unconditional offers and working less hard etc.

DD2 not currently awake to interrogate!

Overall the school is a low achieving comp. Many if not most of DD2's student colleagues are first generation entrants to higher education. The impression I get from DD2 is that there has been a lot of nervousness around the whole process. Accepting unconditional offers has been a way of getting certainty.

The school has very little experience of students going to RG universities. Last year I think it was less than a handful out of around 75 students. Every few of years there will be an outlier going to Oxbridge

Of course in the short term it works for the unis as well as they get the certainty of bums on seats

DD2 was offered an 'unconditional if firm' but chose to go for a conditional offer at a higher ranked uni.

I'm not looking for advice more thinking about what the impact is if a small picture is written large.

Also wondering if there is an overlooked long term downside for the student where they could be stuck on a course they don't enjoy but can't easily change as they have underperformed in A levels.

Add to that the risk of having got into the habit of coasting and taking this habit into uni.

For the uni is that coasting habit also a problem. Plus potentially being stuck with students who can't/won't leave as they don't have somewhere else to go.

I work in a secondary school and there has been a huge increase in the number of unconditional offers made for universities which may be deemed 'second tier'. Although, some of the highly rated unis are also doing this.

It appears to be about getting bums on seats but it really does nothing for student achievement. We've noticed a real dip in attitude and hard work which is likely to affect performance. We are generally a fairly high achieving state sixth form (within a school) and I am expecting a reasonable drop in the % of students gaining A/B/C at A Level as a result.

It's quite cynical of the unis as these students will need their A Levels to get on to graduate schemes once they have finished uni. Their performance will then, likely, become a barrier to getting the roles they want.

I should also point out, some students are savvy enough to realise that unconditional offers are to do with unis guaranteeing their funding and so don't fall for the flattery.

I think about 2/3 of our students were made unconditional offers this year - an unprecedented level!! I'm not sure what % accepted them.

This is a very interesting progression. I am in Scotland where traditionally unconditional offers were reserved for those who had exceeded the tarif. However, increased competition has meant that more and more universities are looking to the advanced higher to serpeare the biggest attaining so unconditional offers are increasingly rare.

Sorry - I know that’s not really relevant to your situation but I shall enjoy reading the discussion

DS underperformed for these reasons. Would listen to me telling him that he might need the grades later, it wouldn't be able to start over if he didn't like the course. His teacher told me it is a real worry for the school & the beloved league tables.

Gosh - typos!

Highest attaining not biggest! No idea where that came from.

DD2's school has never performed weii in the league tables so I am not sure that is a concern. What the accepted unconditional offers allow them to do is big up how many students go to their first choice university. Even though that choice has been swayed by an unconditional offer.

Yes, but for the discerning parent, first choice doesn’t mean much as students don’t rank applications. Destinations matter much more. However first time to university parents are much happier with anywhere!

I do think many parents think their DCs have over achieved by getting an unconditional. They don’t realise they are given out like smarties and truly believe their Dcs have done exceptionally well. However the DC might under achieve both in destination and A level grades. It’s really up to schools to talk about this to their pupils but they don’t. They quite like the unconditional for pupils as it means they will go somewhere (plenty of schools see this as a result) and many schools are not pushing DC towards RG when they should do (not exclusively of course). Why choose Lincoln if you could get to Leeds? But plenty do.

I don’t think it makes much difference to the universities. If they don’t get DC with high grade A levels, it doesn’t matter because plenty of firsts distributed anyway. Not all degrees are the same but the holder of a first still thinks they are pretty good even if their A levels are CCC.

I work in a school and I know of a lot of students who have accepted unconditional offers. The very bright students often still put the work in to get the highest grades they can.However the majority of them do and up getting a lot lower than the teachers expected because they said that as they'd gotten in to uni, it wasn't worth it!
It's really bad- I know students who should've gotten Bs and ended up getting Es

DD's school wants as many students as possible to get places at RG universities. Currently 2 students hold Oxbridge offers.

OP, my son's school expressed the same concerns at a recent parents meeting. I agree that for students who are the first in their family to go to uni, it can really sway them. It broke my heart recently when one of our pupils told me he was accepting an unconditional from our local uni. He'd had an offer from Southampton which is one of the best places for his subject. I think perhaps (as a recent arrival in the UK) being able to stay living at home was another factor.

An issue for first time parents helping their offspring to go to university is the concept of choice. In my area and in a lot of other non-urban areas there is little or no choice in where students go for primary, secondary and further education.

Suddenly at the end of FE students (and their parents) face a bewildering array of choices. Where there is no experience to call on many students will see Oxford/Cambridge and then all the others are pretty much on a level with each other.

Accepting an unconditional offer may seem like the best, low risk, option. After all, what is the point of aiming at a higher tariff university with a conditional offer when you dont perceive it as different from the unconditional university?

Worth having a look at the most recent UCAS end of cycle report. I think there is a further joint review on unconditionals due out towards the end of the year from UCAS and Office for Students.

Anecdotally for DS2 cohort (sat A levels this year) mainly much lower tariff Unis dishing them out, and a definite slackening off in effort.

schoolsweek.co.uk/office-for-students-wades-into-unconditional-university-offers-storm/ has some top level numbers

boys3 I read the article you linked to. Interesting reading. The assertion from Uni of Sussex that there was no evidence that unconditional offers impact on student work level or attainment was unsurprising but also in my view disingenuous.

'Effort' is not something quantifiable and is often hidden as it is often to do with how much private study students are doing. Under-attainment relative to predicted grades can be explained away as over-egging by schools. Whereas grade predictions may well have been made in good faith but teachers wont have been able to qualify their grade predictions with 'only applies if student is firming conditional offer'.

The assertion from Uni of Sussex that there was no evidence that unconditional offers impact on student work level or attainment was unsurprising but also in my view disingenuous.

I'm sure the University of Birmingham says the same thing, but I meet an awful lot of teachers from high-achieving schools in the west midlands who are furious about the number of unconditional offers Birmingham makes to students who are very likely to take their foot off the gas.

Skiiltan I am sure all the unis heavily involved in issuing unconditional offers make similar assertions.

It is very easy for unis to not see the problem when it suits them. What they seem to be willfully ignoring are any potential long-term problems for themselves, for students, for schools which they (the unis) are at the root of. All the focus is on short-term gain.

All the focus is on short-term gain.

I don't work at a university that makes unconditionals, but this is very unfair to the universities.

The reality is that universities are facing tough finances - particularly with frozen fees, decreasing government funding for research (in real terms) and increasing costs (pensions etc). Student recruitment isn't done for short-term gain - it's to avoid large numbers of redundancies.

In most cases the unconditionals are from the least good places and are the poisoned chalice you ought to reject. My son got one (nottingham- quite a good university but probably the worst of his 5 in terms of status hence why they would want to tempt him with the pact with the devil that is the unconditional offer).

Also pupils do need to know what some employers will be looking at A level grades and subjects so it is unwise to get low grades even if you get a first later from Nottingham say.

As my sons are last minute merchant teenage boys I don't think an unconditional would have been a good thing for them at all. Luckily he rejected the one he got and his twin got none and they did okay and got the grades for their first choice.

I think that one good thing that will come out of the rise in unconditional offers is that it might finally lead to getting on with the reforming of the application process - so that people have their results before they apply.

"My son got one (nottingham- quite a good university but probably the worst of his 5 in terms of status hence why they would want to tempt him with the pact with the devil that is the unconditional offer)."

A top 30 university and a Russell Group, and it is only "quite good"

Unis are having to recruit more than ever at the moment. The number of 18yos is falling in the UK, and less mature students are applying than usual- UCAS applications this cycle are at a 10 year low. Uni finances at the moment mostly depend on getting students through the door.

The very top universities can obviously retain their market share, and may have income from other sources or be able to recruit more international students to help make up a shortfall in finances. Everyone else is recruiting.

So high tariff unis are offering to students they might have rejected 5+ years ago. This eats into the market share of mid tariff unis, who then need other tools to help recruit students. Unconditional offers are one of these tools. I think it was Birmingham who first came up with the idea of "Unconditional if firm" offers- and I do agree it has far greater benefits for the uni than for the student.

There's lots of anecdotal evidence that getting an unconditional offer makes students slack off, and this has negative consequences in the future. They may even struggle at uni if they didn't learn enough of the A2 content.

I don't really blame the unis, though. They are doing what they have to to compete.

For the unis it is a short-term view. If they end up with significant numbers of students on courses because they had an unconditional offer rather than because it was their genuine first choice don't they risk those students failing/dropping out and therefore losing funding for second year?

Add to that a potential drop in standards from students who have got into a coasting habit and find it hard to pick up their game once at uni.