DD still can't decide what to study at uni. (Eng Lit or Philosophy?)

[ImagoLuna]

I've posted here before about DD (in Yr 12) who can't decide whether to study English Literature or Philosophy at uni. Time is running out and her school is currently getting students to think about personal statements, continue to add to relevant extra reading/ attending lectures/seminars etc related to their uni subject and gear up towards uni applications.

We've had endless conversations at home about which subject she'd prefer. She's sure she doesn't want to do a combined honours degree but she really can't decide between these 2 subjects. On the one hand, she feels that Eng Lit would be easier and she consistently does well at English. On the other hand, she thinks that it's really difficult to get into a good Eng Lit course as it's so popular. Then again, she thinks that there are some aspects of Philosophy she'll find very hard - compulsory Logic/Epistemology components - yet there are aspects she'd really enjoy - especially when it relates to the 'real world' application of Philosophy.

So I'm back on here again to ask for anyone's personal experience of studying Philosophy or Eng Lit at unis and especially the ones she's currently considering - Oxbridge - maybe - but more likely Durham, UCL, Bristol and Exeter.

What's really good and what wasn't so good about the degree you chose - either Philosophy or Eng Lit?

More generally, how did you help your child to decide what to study at uni when they were faced with a similar dilemma? I've tried so many different ways of helping her make the choice and she's no further forward really. What more can I do to help her as she really needs to decide soon and then do things that will continue to improve her personal statement for her chosen degree?

Just to add that afterwards I did a conversion course into law.

English Lit is piss easy. You basically spend your time doing nothing at all. It's a wonder the government even funds it.

What they don't tell you is that in your final exam, you have to kill a kitten and feed it to the poet Laureate in an extended drag race over North London.

In fact, the only thing easier than studying English Lit is teaching it. Truefacts.

Mind you, possibly the only lighter subject than Eng Lit is Philosopy ....

I'd be cautious about any degree without a clear plan of what it will be used for. Unless she wants to be a teacher?

lol @ LRD. I must agree.

I have a degree in English Lit., and all I am good for is reading texts very closely (to gather the semantics or maybe even the semiotics), and teaching TEFL.

Honestly if I had my time again I would do something sensible. Like engineering. Or even languages.

Also, all the philosophy graduates I have met have basically been unemployable. Excpet for one who was working in a call centre.
OK I confess that it is a very small sample size but still...

Ooh, I dunno, three, what about maths?

Very idle, them mathematicians. I have seen PhD thesis only a page or two in length, the lazy bastards.

oh and in the final year of the English lit degree (read a story and then write a bit about it) I think there were 8 contact hours. or was it 6?

I'll have you know that with my philosophy and psychology joint honours degree, I have reached the heady heights of public sector middle management!

well show me a single honours philosophy student, and I will show you a confused mess.

....backed into a corner, trying to roll a joint and babbling helplessly about Kierkegaard and Nietsche....

Ds just did Philosophy at an RG uni. I think you have to have a good grip of maths and be a voracious reader. So quite a well rounded degree. Graduates are working in the city, on graduate schemes at the big 4, teaching etc. Law conversion... London's a really good place to study as lots of renowned and eminent speakers talk, lots of buzz around the subject.

I know one of my friends is now a producer on Radio 4, one a financial journalist for a top broadsheet and I was a marketing director for a multinational company and travelled the world. (Before DD) Usually First Class.

Philosophy RG uni. I'm not sure anyone ended up in a call centre

Nietzsche!

And the BBC's political editor was at uni at the same time as me, studying an arts subject.

Bubbles, I wasn't suggesting that Reading is elite, just that the op could look at the course content to get an idea of what 'real world' philosophy might include. Course content may not be important to employers, but it is surely important to students. Who is going to enjoy 3 years reading Heidegger if what they are really interested in is human rights? Surely education is a lot more than a ticket to a well paid job?

In my experience, English lit at university is very different from English in school. I was top of the class in school and loved English but had it as an elective class in my first year of university and was barely passing. It was very difficult, and nothing like what I'd been doing in school so I really struggled!

yes guineas it is quite different from school 'eng lit' isn't it?

You can get those crappy York notes which say dreadful stuff about ..I don't know..'feminism in the Great Gatsby' which for uni level is just bollocks tbh.

me too Queen. In fact I was so shocked that I passed Part One, that I took it up as my degree.
Very very silly...

I graduated from Durham in 2015 having studied Philosophy.
The course, at the time, is really not that Maths-y. There was a compulsory module on formal logic in first year, which is hugely different to writing essays, but wouldn't require you to be from a particularly strong Maths background. Once that was complete, you never had to pursue that route and could spend more time focusing on philosophy of language/literature/religion etc.
My university friends are all employed in a variety of fields - I would say either degree from a well-respected university can open loads of doors - happy to answer any questions if I can be helpful!

You do have to factor in employability at the end of all this and Philospohy is a subject which is particularly noted for not being especially employable at the end of a 3-year degree

This is not true. Philosophy at the RG or Oxbridge (PPE combos as well, they do that at Exeter now, quite a few other places) is very well thought of, indeed it is a high status degree. It's hard to tell if it's because it's the content (maths bods often do well) or whether only rich clever people can afford to do it, and these tend to be well- connected when they finish and go into the City, grad schemes, law and so on.

It's not about employability.

I'd say- does she really like the more theoretical end of Philosophy. I have a couple of tutees crying in my room every year saying 'it's not like the A level' and I agree with that, there's far less ethical dilemma type stuff and much more hardcore 'the greats' in the first year and for many, this is a horrible shock. Obviously over time you get to choose more what you like, but there's usually no escaping some tough reading in the first year. There's a few cry over every subject though, because English isn't the same as A level either and neither's Psychology (often students find the stats hardgoing and the matter dry) or Sociology.

I don't think I've been very helpful, but I'd go for the best uni (offer-wise) and really look through the compulsory aspects of each course.

@LRDtheFeministDragon - this made me giggle " English Lit is piss easy. You basically spend your time doing nothing at all. It's a wonder the government even funds it.

What they don't tell you is that in your final exam, you have to kill a kitten and feed it to the poet Laureate in an extended drag race over North London.

In fact, the only thing easier than studying English Lit is teaching it. Truefacts."

On a more serious note my son ( History ) once sat at the back of a Philosophy lecture and said it was weirdly maths and strange.

As others have said , both will have transferable skills and I do get a bit cross when people ( not saying anyone here ) say Eng lit is just reading. It is very analytical. It isn't a 3 yr book club.

It is hard if she doesn't have a natural choice. I did Eng Lit at UCL ( a long time ago now ) but if you want to PM please do. There will be those much more up to date and knowledgable than me.

I would just say - if i were my child I would say choose the subject first and then the university.
Re employability - I think a decent degree in something which involves thinking & analysis will probably stand in good stead. It's not like choosing between English & Engineering ( or something which could tend towards vocational ) Murdering kittens is obviously a more niche skill and one which I suspect has less attraction for employers.

The key to getting a first in English literature is to write essays arguing that absolutely every work of literature is actually about sex.

True fact.

Or religion, of course.

Or even better a tortured interplay between sex and religion.

You know you have a degree in Eng. Lit. and Philosophy when your children bring home Biff and Chip books and you automatically analyse the author's motivations and personal philosophy.