Medicine 2019

[kaykay72]

Hi,

Does anyone here have a DC applying for medicine to start in 2019? It would be nice to meet others as we embark on uni visits, predicted grades, UKCAT etc

We’re in Kent, d is planning to visit kings, UCL, Nottingham, Sheffield and Newcastle at the moment. She really wanted to go look at Belfast but they want three A’s plus an A at AS level but won’t accept her additional qualification in place of this (despite it having a higher UCAS tarriff). We went to an open afternoon at BSMS which she liked more than she thought she would, so is pondering the BMAT.

I have two older kids (well, adults now), one of whom has just finished his masters, the other just completed his first year elsewhere, but medical applications are just so complicated in comparison to their experiences at this stage.

Hope to hear from others in the same boat :-)

@monkey2001 - thank you, it is the physics that she’s most concerned about, she’s not doing physics A level, she’s doing the usual maths chem bio plus a sports qualification. She’s looking at BMAT ninja in her free today. She had a year out of education for health reasons which makes physics a year further back too.

Will be interesting to see what she thinks re differences in the more recent papers. She read somewhere to start with the older ones and work up to the newer ones. I think she just had a bit of flukey beginners luck by the sound of it, she’s bright but not a genius!

DD didn't do Physics at A levels either and it was her weakest subject of the 3 sciences at gcsess but didn't hold her back for bmat. She focused her revision on memorising the formulas but I think she said that a good knowedle of Maths was enough.

I can't remember if I've mentioned it before so sorry if repeating but I would encourage you DCs to focus on the essay. Most get between 2.5 and 3.5 and almost all get A so the 5 points that come with. Obviously essential to get that rather than B. The difference between ghetto g a 2.5 omand 3 5 or even 4 is not massively hard yet 1 point in the total bmat mark is quite a lot.

I think many focus the revision on the first part and assume they can manage the essay so don't spend as much time working out a strategy for it.

Thanks for the tip SoT. Essay is not such a big deal for us - Cambridge ignores the essay mark, Leeds give it half the weighting of the first 2 sections, but I agree that an extra point on the essay is much easier to get than it is on S1/S2.

The advice from 6med was to spend the first 15 mins planning the essay and the next 15 mins writing it. DS has TERRIBLE handwriting and was offered the chance to do it on a computer, but he said he finds it much easier on paper, so that is what he is doing. He is annoyingly relaxed about his handwriting - says doctors are supposed to have bad writing. For GCSE English he got a 6 which changed to 9 on re-mark which was significantly due to handwriting - you would have thought that would have taught him a lesson!

That's good to know that Cambridge don't consider it and Leeds only 50%. Does it mean that Oxford does count it all thought out of curiosity.

The essay will be read and marked by two examiners hence the 1/2 mark. If the difference is more than a full mark, I think it goes to a judging panel or something like that.

I don't think Oxford count the essay mark either, but don't really know as DS was not interested in Oxford - too close to home and they are much more bothered about GCSE results

Big drops!

This is last years data for comparison

2400ish more people sat the UKCAT this year.

The mean score has dropped from 2540 (635) to 2485 (621). Most of the deciles have dropped by about 60 marks. SJT bands 1 and 2 have dropped by about 8%, with band 3 showing the biggest increase but also gorge number of students achieving band 4 going up from 9% last year to 13% this year.

Good news, if a bit surprising. All the people DS knows got more than him and he got 2,800. Odd on SJT.

The last week of testing must have been really packed!

Bit off-piste this, but DD up her neck in the process now - UCAS submitted, tests done etc......and all we get from friends when they enquirers, is discouraging and dissuading remarks re: medicine. I've had people sending me data on the failure rate of the admissions process for medicine today.....wft!!!! I'm a bit sick of it. Is anyone else getting this? If so, how are you handling it? Such a shame to not hear noises of support or encouragement for excited DC's that choose this route warts n all.

Yes! In particular I have a friend who’s son was unsuccessful in getting a place to study medicine - he’s now happily settled and starting the second year of a different course. It’s either ‘hmm are you still chasing the doctor dream then’ (erm no, daughter is applying to go to medical school) or ‘well I guess it’s a lower birthrate year and there are more places now so it will be MUCH easier for her to get in than it was for my son’. Her son is happy and settled, I don’t see what her issue is. He applied to different unis and had two offers but missed out by one grade on results day.

There were a couple of people saying "don't do it" on the medicine thread last year and there was an exhausted A&E doctor on this one. I think you should see it as an opportunity for your DC to explain that they have done their research, know that there is a tough journey ahead and maybe explain why they are prepared to go through that. Use it as interview practice. The Admissions Tutor at Sheffield (St Julian!) had a first slide with images relating to the "basic" elements of medicine and telling students they would encounter lots of bodily fluids to dispel myths of glamour!

Not sure what you should do with "salty" friends, I guess you just have to let it wash over you. No real point in telling her that an extra 2,500 people took UKCAT this year!

@Monkey .....with the national increase of +1500 of new places opened up, presumably a net increase in applicants of 1000 v last year?. That's not actually a big deal. Yes, we were at Sheffield and saw the slide but tbh she's worked at a nursing home & helped disabled kids for 3 years, so no false dreams. Can only put it down to thinly veiled jealousy. Shame though. I don't really understand what it is about Medicine per se that makes others feels so entitled to comment. I'd never say to a friend "Geography .....mmm, so where's the jobs there?" Or "they all drop out of teaching after 5 years". Very very bizarre!

I think there is a belief that many kids go for Medicine for the status so the message is that it isn't prestigious any longer and not that special.

It's probably true that there still clever kids who don't really know what they want to do and opt for medicine because they have the brain for it and it sounds good but very few of these will pass the interview stage anyway.

Loads of activity on TSR this weekend. There are a couple of lovely crusader dads (GANFYD and MEDDAD) who seem to be awake all hours, helping all the students to make the right choices, it is very impressive. Some sad students with poor UKCAT scores - it seems so wrong that this somewhat arbitrary exam has such an impact. Hope they find something else which inspires them.

Hello first time poster long time watcher on this thread. My DS needs to submit his medical school choices in the next few days and we need help...he has a UKCAT score average 682.5 and has GCSE 5 As 5As and 1 B and predicted A level grades of 2 As and 1 A all sciences. He had done 2 years of volunteering in a nursing home plus various shadowing placements. He thinks his scores would not qualify him for Nottingham or Birmingham both of which he has seen and likes because of his GCSE scores. Also looking at Glasgow, Cardiff and Manchester. Any advice/experience on the criteria for all of the above or ideas for our best chances much appreciated. Many thanks

Hi Lesia22, welcome to the thread.

682.5, or 2730, is a good score in the 84th percentile which means that he would stand a good chance of an interview at the UKCAT heavy universities, including Manchester. Some obvious choices for the UKCAT high scorers are Sheffield, Bristol, Newcastle which all shortlist just on UKCAT provided you meet their academic requirements. I would say that he would definitely get an interview at Sheffield and highly likely at Bristol and Newcastle.

I don't know anything about Glasgow.

Manchester - one of the regular student support people on TSR said top 33% of UKCAT are guaranteed an interview - I don't know whether that means top 33% of those who apply or anyone above 67th percentile.

Cardiff - I am not sure his GCSEs are good enough. My DS has 6 A*s and 4 As and we concluded early on that was not enough for Cardiff but we may have been wrong.

Birmingham - I only know what I have picked up from internet threads, but I think there is a calculator which helps you work out your score on their admissions process.

Nottingham - I can't help, but the fact that A*s are worth twice as much as A is not helpful, so looks a bit risky.

In conclusion - I would say he has an excellent chance of an interview at Sheffield and Manchester and a very good chance at Newcastle and Bristol. I think Cardiff and Nottingham are both risky and you should check what the cut-off was for points in the last few years. I can't comment on Glasgow or Birmingham, and there are many others I don't know about so this is not comprehensive!

From Cardiff website:

The first thing the School of Medicine will do on receipt of an application is score the top 9 GCSEs. These 9 must include English Language (and/or Welsh Language), the Sciences and Mathematics.

We award 3 points for A*, 2 points for an A and 1 point for a B. We do not award points for short courses. Applications will be ranked according to their score and a cut-off point is decided. The cut-off score can change from year to year as it depends on the overall standard of applications we get in any one year. Over the last 5 years the cut-off score has ranged between 24 to 26 points.

Assuming that you count 5 A*s at 3 points and 4 As at 2 points, that is 23 points, which does not look like enough.

Thanks Monkey 2001 this already helps us lots. I will get DS to go back through his spread sheet with this new info and reconsider his choices. He is very committed and has been for years - but making decisions is proving hard. DH is helping out on the personal statement another task for this weekend! thanks will keep you guys posted as feel supported already.

Good luck!

By the way, Manchester and Bristol are PBL, Sheffield and Newcastle integrated with full body dissection.

The scoring system for Nottingham is here

www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/study/medicine/faq/a100-selection.aspx

It is thought that previously a score of 44/45 on the GCSEs and UKCAT would get you through to the next round, which is PS scoring. That might be a bit lower this year due to the lower UKCAT stats at the end of testing

It might be worth an ask on the thread in the student room website, they really know their stuff x

Update after a long day of research with DS on medical school shortlist. We have Manchester, Sheffield and Bristol, we have UCL knocked out as too late to go for BMAT. Fourth choice I am urging another look at Leicester or Southampton DS keen on Glasgow as course sounds great....anyone had experience in trying for Scottish Medical Schools? we live in England, any advice much appreciated my DS scores are in my earlier post yesterday.

@Lesia22 - thought about Lancaster?

Scottish unis are a funny one I feel for the English applicant. At DD's school, there has always been great success getting DC's into Glasgow. We are in England. We'd all like to think application is purely based on merit and criteria but I worry that funding comes into play. Scottish govt funds just c£6k per Scottish DC. Fees for English students are £9k, so more beneficial v Scottish DC's on the balance sheet. Bearing in mind medicine costs more like £20k to actually deliver on; you can see that the well documented funding gap on a course like medicine could be huge in Scotland. I'd worry that this could present real day to day issues; teaching group sizes, access to equipment etc. That's my view, it's just a hunch.

The Glasgow cut-off has been 2680 in recent years and it is unlikely to go up as the marks are down this year, so that is good for your DS - see www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_475041_en.pdf

I don't know what else they use to shortlist - anybody else know?