Medicine 2019

[kaykay72]

Hi,

Does anyone here have a DC applying for medicine to start in 2019? It would be nice to meet others as we embark on uni visits, predicted grades, UKCAT etc

We’re in Kent, d is planning to visit kings, UCL, Nottingham, Sheffield and Newcastle at the moment. She really wanted to go look at Belfast but they want three A’s plus an A at AS level but won’t accept her additional qualification in place of this (despite it having a higher UCAS tarriff). We went to an open afternoon at BSMS which she liked more than she thought she would, so is pondering the BMAT.

I have two older kids (well, adults now), one of whom has just finished his masters, the other just completed his first year elsewhere, but medical applications are just so complicated in comparison to their experiences at this stage.

Hope to hear from others in the same boat :-)

Medicmum. Don’t think Leeds will tell you just on principle, and they don’t know yet anyway how the BMAT will pan out.
Last year I would extrapolate that 4, 5.1, 3A would score 4.
8A*’s and an A would score 26 assuming not more than one A is in a core subject.
So should be 38, 37 at worst. The PS is no longer scored, so good chance of interview you would think.
In reality Leeds is GCSE heavy, and those results are what they want.

Herodshelper, Leeds are dreadful on transparency. They do not really publish how they score the BMAT. From TSR I think that medicmom's DS has a "combined BMAT score" of 4+5.1+(3+3)/2 = 12.1. The only FOI thing I have seen was for 2014/15 when a combined score of 14.3 was enough for the 5 point band, but I have not found anything about the other bands.

They should be willing to tell people where the bands were last year, but they told me they "do not hold this information"! Really?!! I don't believe them. They need to learn a lesson in transparency from Sheffield.

Last year the average BMAT scores were lower nationally. Don’t know why, but it was something like 0.3 lower, which seemed a lot to me. When the release the graphs this month you will know. It was the same for all the BMAT unis, the cutoffs seemed lower.
Leeds weight academics heavily, so in principle in the past you could have got an interview with 9 A* and near zero BMAT (which scores 1).
Amazingly this has appeared:
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bmat_scores_of_2017_4#incoming-1172821
Which suggest that the average BMAT for those with an offer last year is something like 4.8, 4.7, 3A.
Leeds takes 30-40 on the Access route and 20 from the Bradford biomedical course (who don’t do BMAT I think). Which leaves about 1700 standard applicants for 200 places. You do well to get an offer, and it seems most people take it if they get one because they don’t give many more offers than places.
Birmingham gave out the thick end of 900 offers last year I believe and it’s a similar GCSE profile required.

Very odd that BMAT average changes when I thought the point of mapping marks onto a normal distribution was, like UMS in A levels, to make results comparable.

I agree that because so much weight is put on GCSEs, applicants with full marks for academics can get 1/5 for BMAT (i.e. just turn up) and still get through with their 36 points, but medic mom and I have DSs who lose 2 or 3 points on academics and are trying to work out what sort of BMAT results they need to make up for that.

One helpful thing is that previously Leeds applicants had 2 chances to get the full academic points - they could get 3 As in AS levels, now that is not an option for most english students, there will be fewer applicants with full points on academics.

DS and I think it is worth going for Leeds with his 32 points for academics, but he needs 4 points for the BMAT to get to that comfortable 36 points at which you would be unlucky not to get an interview. It would be nice to know what that means in terms of the score he is aiming for and I do not understand why Leeds will not tell us the band thresholds for previous years!

I'd say if he love Leeds it's worth a punt as he is close. You'll never know if they will get an interview and things change every year with each cohort. It's a bit of a leap of faith (& like you've done lots of research). Sheffield are the most open and clear and release their cut off each year just after UKCAT final results are out. But by then you've applied !

Thanks Heroshelper for the link. It looks encouraging. Leeds is the top on our list and ds absolutely loved it there from all our open days.
Agree with monkey2001 about knowing the bands.
The admissions lady emailed back saying about the percentages but not about the bands Ds feels strongly about applying and will be do so.
Fingers cross for ukcat.

This is much quieter than last year's thread.

Just looked at UKCAT Twitter feed (trying to avoid doing the DIY job which I am meant to be doing). They replied to a question that the number of people who had taken the test by 25/9 was around 17,500, last year the total was 24,844. As testing finishes on 2/10, surely that must mean a low number of entries this year. In 1 more week would it be feasible to test another 7,300 candidates?

They have managed an average of 356/day since the interim results. If it goes up to 500/day for the last week, the total would be 3,800 down on last year (14%). When combined with the extra places this year, that is encouraging for our DCs.

Quiet here because UCAS form is in and d is back in school mode, lots of testing this year as her school like pressure and stats! She’s just started looking at BMAT prep and did a past paper without any prep to see where she’s at and realistically how much graft she needs to put in, She scored in the 7’s for the first two sections which has made her feel better as some at her school have done weeks of preparation already. I think the cut off for Imperial in previous years has been under 5/9 so it doesn’t seem as bad as she was expecting.

Has everyone else’s DS/dd made their final choices and come through PS hell?

That is very impressive on all counts. DS's UCAS form all ready, but feels anxious about pressing the submit button - it is so final!

7s are amazing - hardly anybody gets them, I think there is something like an 85% chance of an offer at Cambridge with a BMAT score over 7 in the first 2 sections! DS got 6.5-ish inches first attempt, but he went a bit over time. He has not tried any more yet as he is booked onto a course this weekend, and is using that as a springboard. He wants Cambridge much more than any of his other choices, so will hopefully b motivated.

No exams at our school yet, I think they just have 1 set in January. 6th form MUCH more exam focused than main school (where they had no exams in an exam hall until winter of Y11 and never do an English Lit mock or half the science/geography papers until the real thing!

I think there’s a big difference between getting a high score on one practice test, sitting in the school study area and feeling quite relaxed, and what happens on the day with a lot more pressure. She always wanted to go to Cambridge when she was younger but decided against applying there having read the course descriptions. Different people want different things which is good :-)

I’d be interested to hear of your son thinks the course is worthwhile doing. I’m pondering whether just past papers will give her enough preparation, Ive read that done find the BMAT ninja website useful but dd hasn’t looked at it yet

Another point she made was that the paper she did is quite an old one so the more recent ones might be harder

Hostess not undermining your DD's ability at all, some students do get 7s, but the comments that were commonly made last wasn't as hard as they expected and could answer most questions but timing was very stretched especially as there was a lot of information to get through. She's still got plenty of time to practice in any case.

Looking promising for reduced number of applicants this year. I agree that statistically the numbers can't go up that much, they only have so many sessions to offer.

Re Cambridge - DS likes that it is very traditional, lots of anatomy and dissection. He wants to be taught rather than find out for himself (hates the extreme end of PBL) and keen on the idea of supervisions. A friend's DD is at Exeter on a PBL course and loves it, but she said the self-guided approach works well for her as she had other interests which she can work round. DS is also applying for a choral scholarship, which is very much an Oxbridge thing.

Re BMAT - I agree with SoT that timing is a big issue. Also, according to the "sticky" on TSR BMAT thread, the first section contains various "tricks" to catch students out. My view is that as each question is worth a lot in the BMAT, even if the course helps him to get 2 extra questions right, it is a worthwhile investment. His course is with 6med and he gets access to BMAT ninja (which is their product) as well as printed resources. The general view appears to be the courses are not worth the money, so he is not expecting a magic wand, but it will mean a long day of focussed work, half of which would otherwise have been spent in bed!

She allowed herself the time stated then stopped, marked it and looked it up on the scoring conversion chart for the year in question, but I don’t know how much the test has changed over the years - maybe the trick questions are a more recent thing... She really just wanted to know if she needed to panic/cram or if hitting the imperial cutoff was realistic, as she only decided very recently to give it a go. She didn’t have time to check it out before the school wanted her UCAS/BMAT forms in which is quite a risk to take 😳 - but then she’d be very happy to get an interview at any of the UKCAT unis she put down so if she was way off the mark it wouldn’t be the end of the world.

She said in section one she didn’t get the last question done and section two she needs to go over some physics topics as she hasn’t done physics for two years. Hasn’t sat down and tried an essay section yet either, which might be interesting as she’s doing all sciences at A level.

Re Cambridge she didn’t like the thought of very short intense terms and later patient contact. She doesn’t want a full pbl course but felt that a pbl element would be manageable. She likes the idea of London and boyf is likely to be close by.

Re imperial she’s read that 5’s in section 1/2 would be regarded as a ‘safe’ score for interview but also something about banding BMAT scores, but she hasn’t been able to find out any more about that. Does anyone else know?

I was going to post yesterday saying the same monkey2001! The ukcat numbers might be low because apparently it's low birth year. Ds still to do his ukcat and when I was booking his test all centres were quite full. Will be interesting to compare the numbers with previous years.
And yes hostess the calm before the storm!
We are still deciding universities. Which ones did your dd apply for?

@medicmom - Nottingham, Kings, Sheffield and imperial. Her fourth choice was a last minute dither, she liked imperial but wasn’t sure if she wanted to sit the BMAT or apply for a fourth UKCAT uni. She had a good score that would have got her an interview at unis that just rank applicants by UKCAT.

She was a bit 🤔 that her school reference for UCAS included information about where she’s ranked in her year group for her A level subjects, she didn’t see how that is relevant. If you’re 38th in maths at a large selective school with a high proportion of student doing fm, surely that doesn’t say anything about your level compared to a student who’s 5th in maths at a different type or size of school/college? It just seems odd..

@medicmom that is a very strange thing to put in a reference. I have written countless references and only ever alluded to ranking if they are top in mock exams. As you say the comparison is pointless. I’ve written 3 medic ones this week and I always focus on what they are like as a student and then support their personal statement

Movingmountains it was hostess's dd whose School gave that reference.
Yes very strange . Wonder if it's a recurring thing on her school?

Have your DCs been allowed to see their school references? Very closely guarded at DDs school.

I get my students to read it to check I haven’t made any mistakes. Think they definitely need to be able to see it! Would think with freedom of information they are entitled to see it anyway.
Sorry medicmom - reading posts too quickly!

HostessTrolley - feedback on 6med course:

DS said it was worth doing it, they were given lots of tips for the first section. I think he could have picked up the second section stuff on line by himself, but it was good to get it presented to him. People had come surprising distances, there were only 2 from Bristol (where course was held), others from Wales, Plymouth and Manchester(!)

But for your DD, at Imperial, do they ignore it once you have a high enough score to get an interview? That is what the UKCAT med schools seem to do so, for example, at Sheffield they do not use the UKCAT score once you have got an interview, although they do use SJT as a virtual MMI station. At Cambridge, it remains part of the assessment at the end - so interview, A level predictions and BMAT remain important throughout the process. It sounds like your DD is on track to do extremely well without outside help. Is she planning to use an on-line study aid? We now have BMAT ninja, medify has just launched a BMAT preparation programme for £20. I don't know what else is out there apart from the past paper bank.

She was a bit 🤔 that her school reference for UCAS included information about where she’s ranked in her year group for her A level subjects,
Not a medic, but dd1 had one comment of her being "just outside the top 5%" in one subject mocks. She asked the teacher to remove it, as she felt it was meaningless to the universities and could as easily go against her as for her.

She felt that saying 1st in that subject, or even 2nd would sound okay, but "just outside" probably meant around about 5th, which isn't bad, but nothing spectacular.

Hostess I would suggest your DD tried last years' tests. Supposedly they did change quite a bit over the years and indeed last year main issue was timing with few managing to go over all the questions (of course your DD could fall under one of the fews).

.... although they normalise results, so as long as you can find the conversion for the right year (which is difficult!) they should all be comparable

@HostessTrolley, I have now looked through the big book of prep materials DS was given at his course. They say that the cut off for Imperial tends to be around 4.7-4.9, which is less than average (5), successful Oxbridge around 6.1, top 3% in the world 7.5, so your DD should be in a comfortable place.

Is your DD doing Physics? They say that tends to be what catches people out as the second section section has around 7 questions on each of Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths. Their (obvious) advice was to focus prep on your weaker areas and practice, practice, practice - although DS did nothing yesterday as he felt a full day on Saturday was already too much for a weekend (sigh!). Probably worth signing up to the free bit of BMAT ninja and extending to "Training Temple" if DD likes the style.