Universities bribing dcs with free gifts - has anyone else's dc had this??!

[headfried]

My ds got an unconditional offer from UEA but it was his least favourite; hasn't yet decided on his firm.

Had had various letters, calls etc from UEA - ds is predicted good grades so I can see why.

But today, ds got...a free pair of Apple headphones through the post from UEA!

Real ones.

And the best bit is...ds is now thinking of going there as a result.

Anyone else's dcs feeling the lurve?

User
My dds school really encouraged them to go to RG unis. However sh really didnt get onwith alevels. Went to the local FE college took a btec in health and social care and now will hopefully going to the top uni in the country for her course which is an RG

I do think that far too many are being encouraged to go to uni. Things like nursing should never be a degree subject . When i was young the was olevel entry and alevel entry. Tony Blair and his 50% going to uni has a lot to answer for.

I know many of my dcs friends (dc are 20 and 23) who are doing apprenticeships and doing well from them.

Who says the police will want Criminology grads anyway? They may want computer science ones given the modern way crime works.

Flippancy aside, yes, the police should be grads. Why shouldn’t a professional police force be staffed by well educated clever people? Why limit your talent pool to people who cannot get into university? Believe it or not, good grads might actually make good cops. I would like many recruits to have ABB at A level if possible. The civil service has a fast track for high calibre grads, and so should the police. It makes sense to do that.

The talent to be in the police is not a talent exclusive to non degree holders, user, as many of the police seem to believe. You also make it sound that you resent your DS being expected to do a degree which is a bit Luddite of you.

Why shouldn’t nurses be degree holders? They are health professionals and are expected to do a bit more then make beds as they used to do when my mother was a nurse! (She also did a lot more but the basic training was very regimented). We need a better educated workforce. A degree or equivalent proves you can learn. The police resisted it for years. Wrongly.

Things like nursing should never be a degree subject

More educated nurses means less patient deaths. This is backed up by studies, not your feel. Do you want patients dead because you think nurses are too 'posh' now?

The boy from Exeter i mentioned above with a history degree is now a policeman.

Civil Service also does fast track for people who dont have degrees, which is a sensible approach.

Dont agree Bubbles, training on the job is just as good an education.
My dh is a professional engineer who started at 15 in an apprenticeship. He said they would get graduates in who could tell you how an occilascope (sp) works but have no idea how to turn it on.

Whywhywhy
University is not the only form of education.

But the studies show that degree educated nurses provide lower patient mortality than on the job training. Degree.

What studies, those by the universites who are getting money to train nurses(hmm)

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)62631-8/abstract

A europe wide study into it. Including universities who don't offer nursing. In one of the most impactful medical journals in the entire world.

My friends DS has an unconditional (if firmed) for Nottingham Uni - I believe they give out unconditional offers based on predicted grades for quite a lot of subjects.

DD has an unconditional offer (not going to say for where so as not to fuel the snobbery on here) - they have sent her a poster of the university which I think is quite nice as I actually went there myself, but I don't think she's even properly looked at it!

Poster or not, I don't think she's going to make it her firm choice as she prefers somewhere else.

Surely an child who's done well enough in previous exams or who has good enough references to have got an unconditional offer in the first place is also intelligent enough/well-balanced enough to see through any obvious bribery though?

SluttyButty
I agree.
No amount of reasonable discussion is going to change you lot are mean and nasty. All universities are viewed the same. Any suggestion that they are not means you're telling my child they should never go to university. You love ruining children's hopes and dreams

bruffin And sometimes it can be better. Friend of mine got a job with a large firm. They paid him through his level 3 courses and then enrolled him onto a degree they were affiliated with (practical and linked to the local new uni which is good in that area, but pretty crap for non practical subjects). No student debt and a good job. Much better route for him.
Another friend's company also did funded training routes as well. Again in partnership with local FE colleges who had degree awarding powers.

They're quite open about how much better those routes are for some people. Both companies tend to want people with maters and PhDs from good research based universities for their next few levels of recruitment. The people who did on the job funded routes can get up to the bottom end of the PhD entry grades without any extra study by working their way up.

Maisy, I agree. You talk sense, but you wont win any arguments.

All children are different, so their choices are different. Universities, and the courses they offer, are different. The important thing is for a DC to take a clear view of their strengths and weaknesses and think about what they want to achieve, at University and beyond.

And not be fooled by the supposed "status" of a university/degree, and certainly not by unconditionals or free gifts.

One reason why German industry is sucessful is that they have a long tradition of the sort of apprenticeships allied with local FE colleges, that you describe. Vocational degrees at some, often more lowly ranked, Universities offer similar by the other way round, ie study with placements.

And the snobbishness around the police has me reeling. Police won't pay of their loans, but barristers will. 'Scuse me but someone is having a larf. Barristers are self employed, many very dependent on contacts/networks and on how much the Government will put into legal aid. Like many self-employed professons, some, often London based, earn an awful lot, others will earn very little. Police pay is not bad at all, it is a varied and secure profession and career prospects for the right person are very good.

Ditto "Why shouldn’t a professional police force be staffed by well educated clever people? ...I would like many recruits to have ABB at A level if possible." Errr. Clearly other posters don't waste their time watching Channel 4/5 reality shows about baliffs, or similar, where effectiveness is based partly on knowledge of the law, but also skills like communication and empathy. (Used to love Dog and Beth.) My dad was in the police (no O levels, but a "good war") and believed it was very valuable to have come from a similar background to many of the people he was arresting. He felt he was lucky that he came from a family with a strong set of values, but equally had sympathy for those that did not. I have no idea what goes on in a criminology degree, but if it means a combination of the old Sergeants exams plus some of the communications skills that are equally emphasised on medical school courses and other public facing training, that sounds like a reasonable choice for someone who wants to join the police. I can see no reason why you should choose somewhere which belongs to a lobby group of research-strong Universities. But first take a step back, consider whether you have the right attributes, perhaps by taking a gap year and working in parallel roles, and then look at the courses and graduate desitinations carefully.

Ffs, I never said all universities are the same. I never claimed Lincoln was like Oxford. Or like Exeter/Manchester/Sheffild or Newcastle.
I said you dismissed them as pointless and kids should go to the best for them.
WELL LINCOLN IS THE BEST FOR MY Ds.
So he followed your advise after 12 months of research.
Plus for many 1st time appliciants its their local, often non high ranking university, that takes them in years 9 and 12 and encourages them to think of different paths.
Maybe we should just leave Oxford and Cambtidge to do it.

Police want degrees that are relevant to policing. Should history degree students be nurses too. So many are targetting Criminology degree holders and the growing number of police degree graduates. Saves time on further train and gives them professional staff too. Especially on fast tracks straight to detective and ranks above inspector.

@MaisyPops Thanks for the explanation. It's a disgrace.
These kids are spending money and years being encouraged to think they are becoming qualified to get into some desired profession, when they aren't and they haven't got a snowflake's chance in hell.

Ds got a £2k ( non means tested ) bursary for choosing his final University

After the war, no-one in the police had a degree! That was yesterday. The Police are completely different now. Their recruitment is different and a professional police force is required. Years ago, people who should have gone to univesity did not. That is hardly the case now, except in some situations.

History grads are very suitable for the police. If they have a good degree from a very good university they will pick up what they need to. Just the same as any grad job. One wonders how History grads ever get a job at all if they do not have transferrable skills! If they have AAA or better at A level, why would they be shown the door by the Police just becuase the degree is History? Ever heard of transferable skills and potential? Why would these grads NOT have the correct attributes? They can do all the necessary extra activities to prove their worth the dame as anyone else. They might actually be quicker, brighter and of more use!

The Police might also like Law grads too. They may also be very bright. There are thousands of them every year. Its difficult to get training contracts these days, so the Police is a good option for them. However, that is for the Police to decide and unless they say they rate certain degrees higher than others in their recruitment blurb, I think a fairly flexible approach based on skills is key and no-one short cuts training, whatever degree they have. A degree is just part of the process. Some of the very complex investigations are highly suitable for the brightest recruits. The presentation and quality of evidence is an undervalued attribute. We all know that pounding the streets is a thing of the past.

Just to let you know, the world of criminology degrees is all about joining the police, and false promises. Few get in. In case no-one noticed, the police have cut numbers. Its dog eat dog and some of the top dogs have not done Criminology.

Yes, some of what I said was tongue in cheek! However, the majority of barristers expect to earn more than £49,000! I am pretty well versed in their earning capacity thank you.

user: Oxford and Cambridge are just two universities. I think trips to local universitirs are good in that they open eyes, but all too oftenthey narrow choices. DC do not see beyond what is available and do not seek out the better universities when they should do. I accept for a CCC student, choice is limited to ex HE establishments. However, for a better qualified student, going on a CCC course when you have AAA is just stupid. Fear of the unknown is a problem and staying with friends seems to be a big pull. Going to university where, as Maisy says, the course might be easier, is also useful becaue your chance of a first is raised. However, employment prospects might not be. It depends on the degree.

For example, many schools in East London send pupils to St Marys University. It is just down the road andthey have forged connections. Its RG, so that's ok then. How many look further afield? Is this the best university for their subject? Or is it living at home, staying with friends and convenience that makes it attractive? London is also a different set of circumstances with a bouyant economy. If a university is in the middle of deprived area with few job prospects, it is not so glossy.

My friend's DD has a fiance in the Police. At the age of 34, nowhere near Inspector. He has a degree. Career prospects have not been good.

Exactly bubbles.
It's about making students aware of how the world actually works rather than sugar coating things and making false promises to raise hopes because of how adults might like it to be.

Students with clued up professional parents and schools that are willing to be up front about the reality of life sure as hell won't be being told to take an unconditional from local lowly ranked course when they are capable of achieving more. They'll be told to pull their finger out, work to their potential and get into the best place they can.
For students who don't have that guidance the temptation of a guaranteed place and them coasting and getting Cs and Ds is probably greater (especially if the adults in their life, either out of naivity or lack of aspiration, are telling them that route will give them the same opportunities as a higher route). And so the social divide widens.

Needsmore
Criminology degrees look at all crimes and their causes and what leads to crimes been committed. They look at how media and government spin/headlines affect public perception of crime. They look at prevention methods and what works and doesn't. What the rest of world does. Also at Lincoln they have close links to Lincolnshire PCC, Police, Adult and Youth offenders teams, probation teams and Border team. Plus modules in war crimes, law and its history, social work/adult mental health and prison and magistrate's courts.
Secondary year compulsory module is CV and job interview and work experience, done in conjunction with the university's career department, including 3 trial interviews. Final exam in 3rd/4th year is always a verbal presentation in front of a panel of 4-5 lecturers and invited industry leaders. Which includes up to an hour of questioning. The course leaders say this is because the graduates next test is just that an interview, the course gets 99% of its graduates into work or future study, it is proud of it's unique structure.

Last point Lincoln, opened in 2005 fully, CUScarborugh, 3 rd year this year, where both opened because the local business community and councils where sick of losing locals to universities far away and never seeing them again. Both had low numbers of graduates in the economy. By opening the universities, people now study in Lincoln and Scarborough and are likely to stay put. I think that's also likely with Cumbrian, Cornish, Anglian Universities too. Places like Hull, Lincoln and the east coast have for years struggled to recruit professionals in all sectors, especially Health, Civil Services and local government management roles.
Both Humberside and Lincolnshire Police had to advertise Twice for their new Chief Constables as only 1 applicant was received on first round. Sadly because the people who should apply want to work instead for the big forces.

I had a freshers welcome pack from my university. I was so pissed off that the money I was paying (full sum upfront might u add) was used on logo umbrellas and special notebooks that I considered dropping out and asking for my money back.

Maisy
The social divide starts at birth, SureStart was meant to address this, who killed it, the Tories. My son is a police volunteer cadet, he knows what being a police officer will entail.
He went to the Ucas Fair at Hull University in Year 13, and found every university in UK that offered either Criminology or Policing Degrees, set up a mailing list or something with Ucas, which meant our postbox/inbox was bombarded with prospectuses. Then between then and open days discounted all the universities who's offers where to high to achieve. Also ones at lower end with low Graduate employment stats. Ended up with 10 he thought suited him, narrowed it to 5, then a top three. Then top 2, they where equal. One offer unconditional from day one, other didn't, liked both equally after offers day, so decided to go to Lincoln, yes unconditional helped, but he says Lincoln backed me, even with my troubles and showed faith in me, rest didn't, so I am happy to back them.
See even average achieving kids, with non degree parents, can and do plan hard, it's his future. Of the 12 mates all similar educational levels, 9 are doing degrees, all have put just as much time and effort into choosing their courses and universities.
I think you do DC like mine and his friends a huge disservice, if you think they don't care or are easily bribed, they are not. Their only setback is that they are top of the pile and have to take a different approach to the all A* and AAA students. In the long run many will be brilliant, nurses, doctors, police officers, social workers, probation officers, councillors even MP's, why because as Needsmore says they are like the people they will interact daily with and understand their challenges and hopes/fears.

many schools in East London send pupils to St Marys University

You mean Queen marys St Mary is in Twickenham....

Don't forget a lot of Muslim families go to their local university out of necessity (culturally they stay close to their families, and if they're observant they cannot access Sharia compliant loans so have to pay upfront).

Also don't forget who'll be doing the hiring and firing in a few years time. The likes of most of us, who know the difference between RG and went when only 10% of kids did, will be retired. So don't diss the local!

Bubbles,
50% of our wedding guests where employed by Police, and everyone of them wouldn't have done anything else. Most where PC or PS, why, many loved the day to day work with frontline communities, others had specialised in child protection, terrorism or community policing. The rest where slowly working upwards.
True many older ones are leaving in their 100's as their pensions and conditions decline. interesting not one has a good word for or about our present PM, my DW leaves the room when she is on tv.
That's why there is a massive recruitment drive coming, Humberside need over 650 and Lincolnshire 400, that's just to replace retiring officers.

Titchy,
Lincoln has built lots of expensive studio flats, especially for religion and personnel reasons. So Muslim girls and even boys, for food reasons and many Muslim families don't want their boys in with the drink culture. Jewish families too. Plus we saw many dads will to pay £7000+ to keep their daughters away from the lower class lads.