Universities bribing dcs with free gifts - has anyone else's dc had this??!

[headfried]

My ds got an unconditional offer from UEA but it was his least favourite; hasn't yet decided on his firm.

Had had various letters, calls etc from UEA - ds is predicted good grades so I can see why.

But today, ds got...a free pair of Apple headphones through the post from UEA!

Real ones.

And the best bit is...ds is now thinking of going there as a result.

Anyone else's dcs feeling the lurve?

I don't doubt some higher ranked ones do. But if we went though our 6th form offers and looked at the proportion higher vs middle-lower ranked unis then the weighting is more towards newer unis with lower entry requirements who are nervous about filling spaces on their courses.

I still think it's hilarious that people consider lowering the bar a form of social mobility.

But sure we can all live in fantasy land where the rise in unconditionals has nothing to do with universities wanting bums on seats for financial purposes. There's no difference whatsoever between universities who perform highly in international league tables and in REF and those who don't. There's no difference at all between courses and universities who accept on CDD and AAB and nobody in life will ever consider making a judgement based on university. All students regardless of course and university have an equal shot of getting into highly competitive careers. A 2:1 from Oxford is going to be valued the same as a 1st from local uni who accepts students on DDC.
Denying the issue in the name of saving feelings and playing social mobility does nothing to help actual social mobility. It just fools students into making choices that make the adults in the situation feel good (and then we wonder why some professions are still dominated by a wealthy elite).
Much better to say 'yes you could take unconditional offer at X or you could work your arse off and get into Y. You are more than capable of getting ABB & ultimately the world isn't fair, people do make judgements and as an adult I want to encourage you ti aim as high as possible'

It seems like the RG elitism just fuels the class divide that still flourishes despite us all pretending it doesn't.

RG marketing is marketing to everyone. They don’t care where you come from! Does anyone really believe Sheffield, St Mary’s and Southampton are elite and don’t want the best students they can get from whatever background? To suggest that they don’t is absolute tosh!

The sad fact is that students self select. If you are getting BBB at A level, then obviously the highest ranking universities are not going to take you to study History. They might to study MFL or Anthrapology! Or Sociology! Or Criminology. If you want Criminology at a mid ranking university, and do not look at, say Manchester, then you make your choice. However, no one has stopped the student looking at Manchester, other than their own preconceived ideas.

We all know that subject, institution and quality of degree are going to count. If you have mid grade A levels, you are unlikely to get a top grade grad job. That does not mean you cannot be socially mobile and get into a grad profession, but it won’t be a barrister.

All universities are open to anyone. Home life, ambition and doing well at school is the key to success along with university and degree. That’s not new and far more students have opportunities now than ever before.

It is also likely a barrister will pay off tuition fees and a policeman will not! Look on the bright side!

This is done by high-tariff institutions as well as lower-tariff ones.

It is done by few high tariff institutions. As far as I know, none of the very top universities are offering unconditional (except in exceptional circumstances). Birmingham is the main one from top 20 universities doing it - and even they are not doing it for all subjects.

For example, for mathematics + physics I think they only offer unconditionals to students who have (realistic) predictions of several A stars, while their standard offers for such courses would be AAA or so. So only a small fraction of Birmingham's offers for subjects like these are unconditionals.

Agree Bubbles. Parents need to look at themselves and ask how far they themselves are encouraging their DC to 'take risks' in terms of institution before blaming the rest of society and ingrained culture. Lots and lots of parents down the generations have encouraged their DC to 'have a go' and some of those are major figures in our history, but came from quite exceptional poverty.

DD got a few 'come here and get a free gift' emails but all were from lower ranked universities, no RG unis offered anything beyond the place and an occasional email reminding her that they exist.

The lower ranked unis wasted a lot of money as they continued to email and write to her up until about february this year when she'd already been at uni since september. They are obviously desperate or foolish if they think that's worth doing to pick up the few students who are regretting their choice.

RG marketing is marketing to everyone. They don’t care where you come from!
This.
They want the best students they can get for their courses.
So if people are serious about social mobility instead of bleating on about how unfair it is that some unis have better reputations than others, it's worth looking at underrepresented groups at university level abd putting things in place to support aspirations from a younger age.

I was the first in my family to go to university. I'm bloody glad my school nurtured aspiration and my 6th form college encouraged us all to aim high.

And this is the thing, whereas user thinks discussing perceptions and rankings of uni is people saying their DC shouldn't go to uni, what actually happens is that state school kids (who would be bright enough to get onto more selective courses) get swayed by unconditional offers, parents/teachers telling them that's amazing and there's no differencr in courses and opportunities etc meanwhile students at private schools, grammars and parents with a professional background are probably telling their children to ignore the gimmicks and unconditionals and aim for the top universities still.

All the rise of gimmicks and unconditionals does is sell kids false hope and send them down the route of graduating at 21 and wondering why they are struggling to get a training post at a law firm because they've been told all degrees are viewed equally and that a 2:1 from local ex poly with CCD at a level is going to ve viewed equal to a 2:1 from a top uni and AAAA at A Level.

The headphones arent good , dds broke already

I think the word some is missing from your post maisy

We certainly didnt tell ds1 that and neither did his teachers

Yes sorry about that rufus. I don't mean all do. That was really lazy expression on my part. (I teach state and don't tell my students to settle for gimmicks abd unconditionals)

What i was trying to say is that it'll be state kids disproportionately swayed by the nonsense of gimmicks/unconditionals etc and that's not really fair because they'll make choices on the grounds that all unis and courses are viewed equally and then find themselves the other side of uni doing a job that doesn't require a degree/disillusioned that they aren't making it in their chosen field etc. The reason they are less likely to make it is because there are stronger candidates and harder working candidates (on top of the already bias in terms of networking and private education representation in some professions).

I can think of people I went to college with who went to do media courses at lower ranking unis. They are now still working in non graduate jobs in nothing linked to their courses. We went to uni at the point when there was a big push to get 50/60% of people to go to uni. Someone probably should have told my friends what my parents told me: ultimately course and university does matter.
Irritatingly, I'm paying my loan off. Some of them haven't come close yet and will probably never pay it off.

And then you consider how many students are taking £50,000 of loans for lower ranking courses (encouraged by freebies and unconditional offers) and then you look at what jobs most of them will do and it becomes startlingly clear that in a few decades time there's going to be a massive problem when the costs of thousands of degrees has to be wiped off. Is any of that aiding social mobility? Is it shite. It's selling students lies, making money for institutions safe in the knowledge that it's highly unlikely students in that situation will make it in their chosen field and the status quo can be maintained.

maisy

I don't disagree at all with 99% of your last two posts

DS2 has been sent a copy of Great Expectations from Exeter!

@MaisyPops "The average for all courses has to be a 2:1." Can you elaborate on this please? (Thanks.)

At the risk of it being outing i had a grumpy and picky lecturer who was lamenting that they'd been told the average mark had to be around a set % and it was a 2:1. He really resented pressure to pull assignments up because it made figures look better to suit what the big wigs were pushing for.

Similar principle to GCSE grades. There's a bell curve.

That's going back a while mind.

When you look on Unistats, the distribution of classes of degree is not the same at every institution.

E.g.
History BA at Oxford: 100% get a 1st or a 2:1
History BA at Worcester: 57% get a 1st or a 2:1

There's some inconsistency about bumping grades up too.
Some unis will bump a 69% up to a 1st whilst others say 70% is the cut off.

It's all about stats for the benefit of the uni. Like grade inflation at GCSE.

When I was at university, I was chosen as an example for moderating the first class degrees in my subject, and had a viva so they could calibrate.

My best friend was a borderline 1st / 2:1 and had her viva later that day. We joked that I could deliberately underperform in my viva to help her out, although obviously I didn't actually do that.

Bubbles, Criminology at Manchester, is ABB or 128 points, Ds on a miracle day could get 120, but is predicted 112, so he went with Hull, Lincoln, Derby, Bradford and CUScarborough.
All offer from 120 to 96 tariff points. Not one of them offer any free gifts, apart from free hoodie once he confirmed Lincoln.
Plus thanks to this government, all police recruits after 2020 will need a degree, already forces like the MET, WMP and GMP mainly require degrees, Humberside requires Level 3 qualifications and you need to do a diploma, part time, over your first 2 years.
So Ds doesn't have much choice but to get a degree, sadly like all nurses.

Sadly university choice and degree course choice, are the last bastions of snobbery in education. Our son, at a rural comp, rated 4, was told my teachers that Criminology wasn't a proper degree and Lincoln was a glorified Fe college, all of this from teachers with History, English, Geography, Maths and Science degrees and all from RG universities. But his Criminology teacher and old Chemistry teacher, degree from Bradford, encouraged him to apply, also amazing we know 10 Lincoln Graduates all doing their dream jobs.
Finally our next door neighbour's SIL studied Media at an ex poly, and now has an Oscar for his work on films like Gravity.

Maisie,
You sound like very bitter. I now an amazing lady, degree English from Newcastle, never paid a penny of her student loans, unlikely too either, she earns NMW, but she has trained on the job and is one of 2 carers for a profoundly disabled child. I think she gives back more to society, then an investment banker, who may pay off their student debt.
A poster on here, once said that going to university was more then just the degree you get, it widens people outlooks, they meet people they never would have, learn to analyse and criticise and develop their own thoughts/ideals. Which they then take into the outside world and that can sure only be a good thing.

And i know a couple of people from a top university doing bugger all with their lives. Obviously those isolated cases proves top unis are crap.

You're starting to sound like one of those people who try to argue GCSEs and A Levels don't matter because Alan Sugar and Richard Branson didn't do well at school and look where they got in life.

Our local ex poly is great in a few areas (especially more applied courses with workplace placements). I'd absolutely recommend it for those courses. Would I advise my A level students to study my subject there? Not in a million years. I've seen the subject knowledge and skills of graduates from there and all it has done for me is highlight why it's not very good for academic courses.

Interesting that you're happy to drop in that the school is graded a 4 whilst trying to argue that different judgements for universities is nothing more than snobbery (obviously students going to a top uni with AAA are totally the same as students going to a non-top uni on CCD.)

Cross posted with this nonsense >> You sound like very bitter
What because I have the common sense view that students with AAA and a degree from a top uni will be viewed differently than students with CCD and a degree from a lower ranking uni?

For thinking it's a joke that there's a lot of people who choose to take on massive student loans to study any old course at 18 safe in the knowledge that it doesn't really matter what they do because someone will wipe it clean for them? Meanwhile more affluent children will have been thinking about careers and courses for years through school and getting a head start.

For thinking that gimmicks are a waste of time and money?

For thinking that aww hun let's lie to students and trick them into thinking all grades, courses and unis are viewed equally because that'll make them feel good is a silly and flawed way to promote social mobility?

For thinking that social mobility means working with children across their school life so they are in a better position to access excellent courses and they have the drive to achieve rather than being blocked by lack of cultural capital or suffering at the hands of an education system driven by postcode?

Yeah. So bitter. So bitter. I mean who would want more for kids than a pat on the head, some free headphones and an unconditional offer from a lower ranking uni.

Maisy I think you need to give up. You're arguments are falling on deaf ears with user.

FWIW I do agree with you. But I think you're fighting a losing argument sadly.

Actually maizie,
My Ds would never go to university if it was for non RG ones. Can't get grades for RG. So what do you suggest he should do?
Can't join Police at 18, will need degree soon.
Maybe he should stack shelves at Lidl/tesco or flip burgers at McD's or Burger King.
No he can apply to 100 non RG universities and try and better himself. After all as Martin Lewis points out, the £50000 debt doesn't count. It's the 9% tax on any earnings above £25000 which does.
To go above PS in modern police service you need a degree. Inspectors can earn £49000, which is where he like to end up.
Better career prospect than if he doesn't go to university.
I want all kids to have the chance to go to university, not just the few deemed good enough to enter 20 odd self serviving and marketing universites.
Lincoln in 15 years is starting to chase down the RG universities, in 10 years it maybe better. Also beleive St Andrews, Herott Watt and Bath aren't RG. God even our future king and queen went non RG

The grade 4 was show even in schools like ours, teachers tell DC not to study lesser degrees. IE Criminology, media studies, business studies and not to bother if not a RG university.
Many are kids who get no encourage from home. Some are told to do hairdreesing at fe, when they could easily do a degree and get a professional qualification and go on to have a career.
Are you happy to have bright kids told it's RG or don't bother. Because that's what many locsl sixth forms think