Would it be foolish to not choose a Russell Group uni?

[MollyHuaCha]

DD has 5 uni offers inc. two from RG universities to study history. Mock exams and grade predictions indicate that she is likely to achieve the required grades for all five places.

Common sense tells me she should put the two RG unis as 1st and insurance choices.

But she is now talking of putting one of the other unis as 1st choice simply because she prefers the city it's in.

Ultimately it's her decision not mine, but she's unsure and keeps asking other people that they think of this.

College tutor recommends the RG universities. But DD says this is for their own benefit, not hers.

Any thoughts from anyone about this I could share with her please?

RavenLG Fri 23-Feb-18 21:30:38
"RG isn’t really that well respected anymore compared to previously (over half failed to get good marks in the TEF, while “lower” ranking unis surpassed them)."

It is worth noticing that they were not judged against the same criteria: there was a "handicap system" which meant that some RG universities started out with enormously high pass marks. "Lower ranking" universities needed far lower grades to achieve gold or silver.

DS2 was offered places at 3 top RG universities for his subject but only ever had eyes for a slightly lower ranking RG University because he loved everything about it. Nearly two terms in he doesn’t regret his decision he likes the university and the way they structure their degrees and he loves the friendly exciting busy city it’s located in, (I’m naturally a countryside lover but even I can see its appeal). He’s really happy and doing really well. I don’t think as parents we can ask for more. Let her go to the university she likes the looks of.

Meant to add according to colleague who I was talking to last week who’s DD is doing history at Exeter if you do history at Exeter you study at Falmouth in Cornwall her DC loves it there but others aren’t quite so enamoured.

happygardening - they have a History department at their Cornwall campus as well as their Exeter campus. The Cornwall campus offers tend to be more generous and to get into the Exeter one, the grades they ask for are higher.

The Leaue Tables are only partially helpful (in as far as, probably avoid the absolute bottom ranked places, but loo carefully at the those from about the middle up, because that actual differences between them will be small). Sussex is an excellent university. I wouldn’t be put off by league tables here.

RG universities are those which are large, have medical schools and a lot of money. They are not a guarantee of the finest quality (eg some of the best art and design schools are not RG). It is somewhat lazy and snobby to only consider RGs capable of providing a good degree (conservative government, I’m looking squarely at you).

If the university is part of the old 94 group, then it is research-intensive (but probably smaller than RG). There is no reason that this university would not offer a very high standard of education.

Going to university in a place that you like is important. You do more at university than come out with a grade to put on your CV, and you should be happy with your decision in terms of programme, location and university ‘vibe’.

Your daughter will not be disadvantaged by not going to RG of they choose another research intensive institution. It’s also worth looking at the those programmes in history that offer placements btw - genuine work experience offered as part of the course are very useful for networking and providing something interesting to talk about in later interviews.

Malbecfan
Then they decided they had to join the club. 2 core subjects were shut down and a medical school was opened so they could tick a box that medicine was offered. What about Chemistry, the only A level that medics actually require? What about Music? Yes, they were "economically unviable" so were shut down.

Exeter has had a medical school (jointly with Plymouth) since 2002. It seems to have divorced from Plymouth to join the Russell Group, rather than opened a medical school for this purpose.

Neither Durham nor the London School of Economics & Political Science has a medical school; both are members of the Russell Group. I can see that Durham might well have opened its short-lived offshoot of Newcastle's medical school to boost its RG credentials, though.

Several chemistry degree programmes closed down at the same time as Exeter's. Chemistry courses are expensive to run and if students don't want to take them it's difficult for universities to keep them open. The same thing is happening now with modern foreign languages, although these are obviously much cheaper to run than chemistry. Incidentally, chemistry is not "the only A-level that medics actually require", not that this would be in any way relevant.

Ds is at a top RG uni and doesn't like it at all. It was his choice but isn't happy there

' Music in particular is not offered in many universities (neither Warwick nor Exeter offer it). There is still plenty of choice for those (like one of my daughters) who do want to study it. '

DS ended up choosing Sussex precisely because it offered the right flavour of music degree. His UCAS form was Sussex and four places he didn't want to go to.

OP, if this makes you more relaxed, they are very kind on results day and will take DCs with a missed grade who have firmed them rather than digging too far into clearing.
And your DD will arrive in time for the East Slope accommodation replacement.

Love MN for all these different views. Thanks everyone, it's really helpful.

A difficult situation for your dd op, I can really sympathise. Sussex is by no means a bad uni at all, and at the end of the day there are many factors which will affect how successful your dd is in her degree, I would argue that her happiness in her surroundings will be one of them- if she feels happy and comfortable and enjoys her time at Sussex, she well enjoy her studies more and ultimately do better in them. I'm a firm believer of following your heart when it comes to uni choices- 3 years is a long time to spend somewhere which doesn't appeal to you.

I think the link to employment after graduating is interesting. It has researched the top grad employing firms and their milk run doesn’t include Sussex in the top 10. Warwick is in the top 10. Therefore, is future work a deciding factor? What you want to do might influence where you go. Plus where you fit in! Brighton is full of tatoo parlours!

So much of future work relies on social capital that you build up during childhood. It’s a conversation for another thread, but it’s not the fairest of metrics.

So many of my students are still first generation university students, and it’s up to us to show them careers and futures that they can realistically achieve. So many of my students aim too low because they just don’t know how good they are. It’s frustrating and sad (I’ve also worked at an American university with very well-off students, and never seen a similar mindset - the standard of work was very similar though) , and I spend a lot of time being an extra parent that pushes them to see what they can actually achieve.

I agree with your sentiments, Callamia. However we do seem to have a lot of information about university and different courses and then have differing groups of people who go to the “good enough”
University rather than the very best they can get into. The reason some students with the social capital choose the better universities is that they are conditioned to know which ones they are.

It also does depend on the course and how widely available it is. I tend to think that widely available Humanities subjects are best studied at the best universities, not the one that’s 80th in the league tables even if the teaching is good - it probably needs to be. Employers won’t care about quality of teaching in a humanity. If you are not wanting a top grad recruitment firm, then it’s less likely to matter what you do or where you go. However traditional jobs in local authorities are severely reduced and lots of grads from local hbivessities used to be recruited by the government and local authorities. With cuts, these jobs are far more difficult to get than they used to be.

If you need more hand holding, then choose one with more teaching hours but it’s fairly clear that top employers know the difference and certainly look at A levels.

It is also fairly obvious that lower tier RG is not much different to other universities. When I was at school, many chose Kent, Sussex, Leicester, Essex etc. Not a single person from my DDs school chose these universities recently. Bath appears to be different and popular. It’s quite difficult to explain but clearly fashions change. They all apply to Exeter too, it would appear!

When I was at school, many chose Kent, Sussex, Leicester, Essex etc

They're not lower tier RG... Neither is Bath. and Exeter has to buy its RG status

I know they are not RG. My point was that they were seen as equal to other universities years ago at my grammar school. No one bothered to differentiate very much. Everyone did the jobs they wanted to do afterwards whether it was fast track civil service, banking or law. Far fewer went to university so choice of university was smaller and newish ones were favoured.

I am aware that Bath and Exeter are very popular now and have different memberships but a similar profile. As I said, perceptions change.

Depends on what she wants to do afterwards, and whether she wants to keep her options open. Some city law firms don't recruit for training contracts from anywhere but Russell group universities.

RG universities are those which are large, have medical schools and a lot of money. They are not a guarantee of the finest quality

Dundee is one of the top uni’s for biochemistry, psychology and medical sciences. It has lots of money because it does ground breaking research that in invested in.

It is not rg.

RG is not the be all and end all. It is a very good example of marketing. But there are some very good uni’s out there that didn’t need rg money.

RG is absolutely marketing yes! And didn't exist back in the day when a lot of MNers, myself included, went.

HappyGardening if you do history at Exeter you study at Falmouth in Cornwall
Not true. It depends on the specific course. My DC is at the main Exeter campus

Haven't RTFT so sorry if someone has already said this. If your DD gets 3 As (which I'm assuming she's on target for if she's getting offers from Exeter & Warwick), I believe she could get a £3K bursary from Sussex.

I told all my 3 to go on gut instinct (from the unis we visited).

FWIW I was able to sit in on the taster lectures at Warwick and Durham and thought they were both brilliant. DC thought Durham was too far away and too claustrophic, Warwick was just nowhere near as beautiful as Exeter.

I know nothing about Sussex I'm afraid, but I think it's got a good reputation?

I do laugh at the MN obsession with RG. My old university has brilliant employment and student satisfaction statistics and it's 'only' a plate-glass. If Sussex feels right for her she should go. For me, choosing a university was like buying a house - you just knew it was right when you went to see it.

Student satisfaction is deeply floored. It often means lots of hand holding which is not valued by employers. It does not mean a rigourous course. Does anyone choose a university baded on beauty of the site? Do job prospects not come into it?

Science grads are different to arts and humanities grads. Some universities will do well with niche courses. Some universities do well with lower paid grad jobs. That is still employment of course, but not top salaries. Ambition and what you want out of the course should be considered. RG is not everything, overall, but at the top end, it is. The top grad recruiters do not even go to lots of universities. They just do not recruit from them. With a history degree, you need all the help you can get in the jobs market due to the huge amount of competition. Why go to a less prestigious university when you have offers from top of the tree ones unless you really believe you can do just as well afterwards?

Bubbles if you've got 4 identical offers from RG unis, all of which are in the top 7, then yes, beauty does come into the choice! It's all part and parcel of the 'gut' feeling. And job prospects will be the same whether you went to Durham, Exeter, Warwick or St Andrews....

And at interview, much of a candidate's success (or not) is down to personality, confidence, being articulate etc etc. And RG unis don't have dibs on teaching that.

DD1 went to a RG university 2 years ago and loved it. DD2 applied for 4 RG and UEA. When she went to UEA she had the same feeling as DD1 at Bristol. She will be doing economics and felt UEA offered more of the direction she wanted to go in. All courses are highly ranked. It was more about the feeling than RG or not.

DN went to UEA and absolutely loved it

Norwich is lovely city

Campus beautiful with great friendly atmosphere

Very easy transport links to London etc

Good luck to your DD