Would it be foolish to not choose a Russell Group uni?

[MollyHuaCha]

DD has 5 uni offers inc. two from RG universities to study history. Mock exams and grade predictions indicate that she is likely to achieve the required grades for all five places.

Common sense tells me she should put the two RG unis as 1st and insurance choices.

But she is now talking of putting one of the other unis as 1st choice simply because she prefers the city it's in.

Ultimately it's her decision not mine, but she's unsure and keeps asking other people that they think of this.

College tutor recommends the RG universities. But DD says this is for their own benefit, not hers.

Any thoughts from anyone about this I could share with her please?

Sussex is a great choice and really distinctive and exciting- the rating difference between there and Exeter and Warwick is really not important. I would distinguish between 92/ pre92 unis, but don't think RG is a particularly significant (self selectd) distinction

I went to sussex and did History, despite offers from LSE and Exeter. Loved every minute of it, and once you're there, working hard and enjoying student life, getting a decent grade is more important that the mission group I'd say.

Sorry but I totally disagree that Russell group is better for all DCs. If your dc is at all at risk of not sticking with it or has mh or other issues, they wont necessarily get the pastoral support they will need to get them back on track at an RG University. All Universities have a good proportion of students who drop out, but the effort Universities put in to making sure students dont leave for the wrong reasons varies hugely. In some cases making sure you get a degree via Oxford Brookes is a better bet than doing a semester at a prestigious Uni and dropping out.

Nineteenth in the league tables is still good. Does it rank well as a university overall?

Is your DD gay/curious? If so, I would think Brighton was a great, welcoming place to go to uni and probably encourage that choice more actively. If not, it's still a really fun and creative place to be. I'd love to live in Brighton (not helpful).

I went to Sussex 100 million years ago. Teaching and resources were amazing. The campus is fab.There is loads of tourism associated jobs. Nightlife is fab, great shopping, the Sussex downs are beautiful. But I'm biased.

Mamia, I looked for the Informed Choices report, but couldn’t find it ? But I think Sutton Trust have a track record of believing that for bright children from disadvantaged backgrounds, that access to elite universities can be the key to social mobility - there is definitely merit to that argument as long as they are properly supported with the transition.

www.russellgroup.ac.uk/media/5272/informedchoices-print.pdf

Sorry it's not a Sutton Trust report.

DS is at Sussex and loves it!

Oops - that report is for those considering A level subjects. This is the report your DC needs to read if she or he is interested in being employed on a graduate scheme:

www.highfliers.co.uk/download/2018/graduate_market/GMReport18.pdf

Let her choose! She will only resent you if you push her to a decision that was not her own. Maybe visit all 3 again? She will get a good grade where she is happy. If she is miserable and homesick in a town she didn't want to go to in the first place she will not succeed to her full potential.

Brighton is an amazing city with amazing culture, yes it's expensive but you can work part time and go to uni full time easily.

"19,133 graduates actually started work with the organisations featured in The Times Top 100 Graduate Employers in 2017"

No info about the other 120 thousand graduates each year?

If she's judging by the city she will be living in after the first year, most Warwick students live in either Leamington or Coventry, which have a very different feel to the campus itself. Leamington certainly has a more vibrant nightlife. DS is struggling to choose between Warwick and Birmingham so I understand how difficult it is!

Yes, I know Brighton (Sussex) is expensive for renting houses, but I've not shared that with DD as I wanted her decision not to influenced by money.

Molly - Exeter is also expensive for renting (counting down the months until ds graduates this summer and we can afford holidays again ...)

Did Sussex offer your dd an unconditional? They seem to offer a lot (2 of mine got them, though neither went). If not they may well do so - which will add another dimension to the debate!

A couple of thoughts. Is proximity to home also inputting into her preference for Sussex? If she still lacks confidence or you have any concerns for the future pastorally then proximity to home is no bad thing.

Secondly how enthusiastic is she about her subject?

The department of history at Sussex seems likely to be very good from the faculty point of view but the attainment of students is generally going to be much lower at Sussex. The risk is that more of the students will not be as engaged by their subject as say Exeter or Warwick and even if engaged less able to articulate their views with academically. That can make any subject discussions between students including tutorials rather uninspiring however hard the academics try.

To keep options open when there is still so much time I would advise putting her favourite of Exeter or Warwick first and Sussex second.
Come results day if she is still of the same opinion then she can ask her first choice to release her.

"Top universities, such as St Andrews, Lancaster, Bath, Loughborough, Sussex and Leicester, are regularly ranked highly but don’t belong to the Russell Group.

Equally, you might find that a non-Russell Group university better caters for your educational requirements, or is better for your desired course. Russell Group universities also have come under criticism in the past for having a particularly high intake of private school students and for creating a two-tier system in higher education.

Ultimately, whether or not a university is part of the Russell Group shouldn’t be a key factor when deciding which university to attend. Pop it into your pros and cons list maybe, but, to quote Mr. T, “pity the fool who only considers Russell Group universities.” "

(from www.allaboutcareers.com/careers-advice/choosing-a-university/russell-group-universities)

Sendsummer, Sussex is a top 20 university. Your statement: "The risk is that more of the students will not be as engaged by their subject as say Exeter or Warwick and even if engaged less able to articulate their views with academically. That can make any subject discussions between students including tutorials rather uninspiring however hard the academics try" is pretty OTT and as a Sussex History graduate, quite offensive!

Thanks mamia

OP, I’m hope whichever Uni your dd picks, she will have a great experience - despite what rankings may imply, she is likely to have plenty on offer at practically any of the Unis you are looking at. Hope it all goes well for her.

Pittcue general statements always run the risk of being offensive and not being applicable to every individual.
For my generation history at Sussex was a very highly rated course.
I don 't know when you graduated.
Entry standards are significantly lower for Sussex than Exeter and Warwick (even taking into account potential differences in educational advantage). That will cover a range of applicants but as a group they will be less academically able or less academically enthusiastic than those at Exeter or Warwick.
I think that happiness is the priority but mismatch in enthusiasm for a subject between a student and their study group will have an effect on how much they enjoy the course.

Reading back through your posts you say that she doesn't want to return to Warwick or Exeter to visit as she has seen them already

But that she has been to Sussex twice

I think this is actually meaning she did not like vibe or feeling or environment or something else vague about Exeter or Warwick

If she doesn't want to even visit them again I think maybe she is feeling she doesn't want to live and study there for 3+ years

I think that there is something that she "feels" about Sussex that makes her feel more comfortable and happy there

I think it might be like when looking at houses or schools that we as adults go to look round a house or primary or senior school that fits all the tick boxes but for some unknown reason it just isn't the "right fit for our DC" or "right house" for us at that time

I might be barking up completely the wrong tree though

Thanks for your views everyone. It's great to have different perspectives.

Good luck to all those teens choosing universities at the moment. There's more info available than 'in my day', but the decision making doesn't seem to be any easier!

Russell Group is a self-appointed group of universities, who for some reason, have seemed to have duped some people into believing it's RG or why bother at all. It's worth looking up some the criticisms of the RG hype, some of it which has come from academics who work in RG universities.

I think a student has to be happy with their choice, to thrive at university, there's no point going to a RG university if it's not the right fit for an individual student. My best friend went to a fairly low ranked metropolitan university, because she felt it was the best fit for her, and has gone on to out earn RG educated me by four times as much. It's the student, NOT the university.

@CheeseTheDay has it!

RG universities have joined the club. Exeter used to be a nice uni on a glorious campus in the mid 1990s. Then they decided they had to join the club. 2 core subjects were shut down and a medical school was opened so they could tick a box that medicine was offered. What about Chemistry, the only A level that medics actually require? What about Music? Yes, they were "economically unviable" so were shut down. I could go on but it would be too outing.

Exeter may be good for History, but I would avoid like the plague for certain subjects. My own DDs feel similarly.

My situation is a bit different because I'm a mature student but I turned down two Russell Group offers. The course at my current uni is fantastic and so is the financial support (which is no small consideration these days). I'm very happy with my choice.

FWIW my DD is at Sussex (not history though) and had a similar dilemma between Warwick and Sussex. Warwick is RG and was also ranked slightly higher for her course but her instinct told her Sussex. Instinct won and she really enjoying it there, has had a good experience socially and academically and definitely doesn't regret her choice. Her best friend chose Warwick for the same course and hasn't liked it nearly as much as my DD has Sussex.

Realise you could probably find an example in the other direction as well, but certainly my DD's experience has been that letting the heart rule the head was the right decision.

Good luck!

I don't see a problem with some universities deciding not to offer certain subjects. Universities are not schools, in which children ought to have the opportunity to study a wide range of subjects. Music in particular is not offered in many universities (neither Warwick nor Exeter offer it). There is still plenty of choice for those (like one of my daughters) who do want to study it.

As far as the three universities under discussion are concerned, my husband went to one, my sister went to another and my daughter is hoping to go to the third.