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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

How do A level grades affect Class of Degree?

135 replies

catslife · 04/09/2017 16:21

There are loads of threads about GCSE and A level grades needed for university but cannot find any information that answers my question.
Would a university student with a grade A (or A*) at A level achieve a better class of degree to one who had a grade B (or possibly grade C). This would be for an "arts" subject if that makes a difference.
Trying to work out if B/C at A level is a suitable level to make it worth applying for unis. If a child does better than this can they make a late application/ go through clearing if they haven't already applied?
Any answers and thoughts welcome.

OP posts:
stubiff · 05/09/2017 12:54

catslife, another graph attached.

From www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Good+Honours using the latest numbers.

How do A level grades affect Class of Degree?
sweatylemon · 05/09/2017 13:06

DD got 3 D's at Alevel
How she got in to Uni is beyond me.
She had an interview & sweet talked the admissions people.
Her GCSE's were ok.
She has just graduated with a first.

The girl did good in the end (proud mother emoji)

titchy · 05/09/2017 13:10

Except stubiff those AREN'T entry requirements - they're entry qualifications. Entry requirements are lower, especially at the top end, so the line of best fit is flatter than yours.

Gannet123 · 05/09/2017 13:16

One thing worth bearing in mind is the difference between the final quality of work that a student produces, and the amount of support they take to get there.
First class work may look the same across a range of institutions, but the amount of teaching and support a student has to get there will differ - in my experience (and in my discipline), institutions where entry grades are typically lower have more contact time and more support and structure around assessments, for example. Courses with higher entry requirements will have more of a requirement for independent study. This, incidentally, is why focus on contact hours as a sign of a 'good' university is irrational - in Humanities and Social Sciences the prestigious institutions have always had fewer contact hours because their students are good enough to cope with more independent study.
That's what employers often pick up on - students from University A and University B may have produced similar quality work in assessments, but if the student from University B needed more help to achieve that quality, then they may be a less good prospect as an employee. Most graduate employers are more interested in skills and learning capacity than in knowledge.

stubiff · 05/09/2017 13:22

titchy, yes, apologies, they are entry qualifications not requirements.
The line will still be sloped!

Maths at Oxford requires A A A - can only attain one grade higher!

Nuttynoo · 05/09/2017 14:45

Also entry requirements doesn't mean that lower grade applicants won't get it. All universities make exceptions.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 05/09/2017 15:16

DS1 (totally idle bugger) got a C and a D in a pretty poor sixth form. But after a foundation course (and some serious growing up) got a solid 2.1 at a Russell Group.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/09/2017 15:29

Would a university student with a grade A (or A) at A level achieve a better class of degree to one who had a grade B (or possibly grade C). This would be for an "arts" subject if that makes a difference.*

Statistically yes but each student is an individual not a statistic. If they've done better than expected it might suggest they're on an upward trajectory of motivation, maturity, study skills or whatever.

user7214743615 · 05/09/2017 15:37

"Maths at Oxford requires A A A - can only attain one grade higher!"

Not true. Many people doing Maths will have four A levels, sometimes more. The very high average point scores for Oxbridge Maths students indicate that they have more than 3 A levels.

stubiff · 05/09/2017 16:10

user72.. ah yes, ok.

BubblesBuddy · 05/09/2017 17:08

Gannet is spot on. Whether posters like it or not, for many top grad jobs, institution does matter. Law very much so. Non RG barely feature in many firms. The degrees from these units are better prep for legal departments in businesses. It is just fiercely competitive at the top level.

LineysRun · 05/09/2017 17:10

I always knew I was an outlier.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 17:27

I agree with Gannet as well, and work in one of the type of HE establishments described. What is sometimes the case though is that the extra support provided fills in the gaps due to a pretty dire educational experience to that point- which can occur for a whole multitude of reasons. Where that is the case it can provide the basis for an extremely successful future and it's important not to forget that. Very rewarding for everyone when that happens. And fortunately many people want to do a whole range of very interesting jobs where personal experience and insight might be just as relevant as a degree.

orecchietti · 05/09/2017 17:33

Oops just realised a mistake in my earlier post - Bs and Cs are certainly NOT inappropriate for Russell group.

I'm actually a little unnerved by the tone of your posts OP - I hope your negativity about their grades isn't being passed on to your DC (assuming that's who this thread is about). The last thing I needed when struggling through my a levels would have been my parents giving off the idea that there wasn't any point me applying for or going to university, or that I was too dumb for a Russell group university to look at me.

orecchietti · 05/09/2017 17:38

Apologies if I've misinterpreted OP, it's just that your posts come across as though perhaps your DC wants to go to university but you're concerned that his grades (which really aren't that bad) means that there's no point?

Original poster
catslife · 05/09/2017 19:18

Wrong way round orecchietti it's the dc that isn't sure about uni. There are degree courses with the predicted grades they are likely to achieve around in subjects relevant to A levels being taken and some had clearing places available this year.
If the dc had a clear and definite plan that they wanted to go, they would be encouraged to apply, but at the moment don't think they are ready. I could imagine it happening at a later stage though.

OP posts:
orecchietti · 05/09/2017 19:52

Oh sorry OP I got the wrong end of the stick! I think being ready and wanting it is one of the main things that will determine settling in well, adjusting to the course and getting the work done, being able to enjoy the work and doing well, so it's worth giving it some thought. I didn't think I wanted to go at all until the end of my gap year at clearing time, by which time I was pretty sure I wanted to give it a go.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/09/2017 19:54

If they're uncertain and don't seem ready, then regardless of grades it's surely better to wait, esp nowadays with whopping fees.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 20:02

With today's fees/loans situation I would definitely recommend taking a year or two out to work for a while if they aren't sure they want to go/what they want to do. The extra couple of years to think about it can be very motivating.

user7214743615 · 05/09/2017 20:16

Bs and Cs are certainly NOT inappropriate for Russell group.

Many Russell group courses won't go below AAB or ABB in Clearing.

Grades have changed a great deal over the last 20 years.

Bs and Cs won't get you into many Russell group courses these days.

Gannet123 · 05/09/2017 20:17

Agree with slightlyperturbed. This is why I have issues with blanket recruitment judgments being made on the grounds of institutions attended. It may be the case that most students from Instution B have fewer skills than Instutution A, but it's unlikely to be the case that all of them do (there are plenty of students at Institution A, as well, who have the raw ability to get a First but in fact just scrape a 2(1) and who I wouldn't recommend to anyone....). It's just lazy recruitment to focus on institution and not competence.

ChilliMary · 05/09/2017 20:26

They don't!

How could they?

I know someone who got 3 As at A'level but just manged to get a 3rd at degree level, but just. Equally, i know many who got less than perfect A'levels but then gained outstanding 1st in their degrees, and went on to complete their Phds.

Why should the former determine the latter in outcome, if the student is really determined to do well?

LineysRun · 05/09/2017 20:33

What is this obsession with the Russell Group on Mumsnet for undergraduate degrees? It's like some sort of self-fulfilling prophesy on here.

There are other very good universities at undergraduate level.

BobbinThreadbare123 · 05/09/2017 20:38

They don't. Uni is about how hard you work, growing up, finding your real interests and path in life.

Also, the Russell Group is a myth......the universities pay to be in it! There is a good number of non RG unis in the top 20. I will point out that I have a degree and doctorate from a highly ranked non-RG institution and not one employer has ever discussed it with me.

orecchietti · 05/09/2017 20:47

User - sorry if I implied I was talking about years ago, I'm not. I'm not old enough to be talking about 20 years ago! Obviously it depends on the course, but there are a number of courses at a number of Russell group universities who will accept Bs and Cs, depending on the candidate and the circumstances.