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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

How risky are gap years?

57 replies

Whitlandcarm · 01/09/2017 00:41

Dd really wants to take a last minute gap year. She did very well but not amazingly at a level.

Her current course asked AAA which she would be happy to go to. But the entry requirements for that course are A*AA/AAA.
She would be applying again for History///archaeology at one.

For gcse she got A*/A
A levels AAAA

From a low performing state comp.

She would apply to

Oxford
LSE
UCL
Bristol
???

Do we advise her to stick or twist?Confused

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 01/09/2017 12:50

It might be useful to see Universities as either selecting or recruiting. Those that select will have more applicants who meet published entry criteria than places. For example in 2016 LSE BA History had around eleven applicants to a place, and is a course that has not been in either adjustment or clearing for a number of years. They will be rejecting good applicants who meet their published criteria.

One trick is to search a subject in the Complete University Guide by entrance standards

www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings?o=Entry+Standards&s=History

A successful applicant to Durham history has an average of 570 UCAS points - so some way beyond 3 As at A level.

Four years ago when my son was applying for economics - with a 4A* prediction, a fifth A level and a language at the equivalent of AS - he received three rejections: Cambirdge, Warwick and UCL. It was far tougher than we had anticipated and it does no harm to go into the process aware that places at top Universities can be extremely competitive.

It is then well worth becoming familiar with the course and considering what they might be looking for, especially those courses who don't interview. For example one boy we know gained a place at Oxford to study history, but not at LSE. In retrospect he thinks the LSE course may have been prioritising those with a stated interest in economic/political history...as opposed to, say, archaeology. And making sure the PS reflects the course content of the Universities applied to.

Once outside the top tier, places are easier to come by. There are then two approaches. Either try one "reach" three achievable and one fall back, or similar. Or decide that given there is an element of lottery when places are awarded for the very competitive courses, to apply to three or four very competitive places and hope you get one.

You then need to expect a long wait. Other than Oxbridge, over-subscribed courses often wait till after the January deadline before allocating many of their places. It is really not unusual to be waiting till late March before hearing from somewhere like Durham or LSE.

That said there are advantages in having studied at a top ranked University and though it is tough to get a place, it will probably be worth it. Though as a parent, the surprise has been just how hard modern students expect to work. Even friends who went to Oxbridge say they did not study through their vacations in the way their children do.

Marmenteum · 01/09/2017 13:05

I can promise you that lots of a* courses ended up in clearing!!

Oxbridge is a different beast.

goodbyestranger · 01/09/2017 13:12

Which A* courses Marmenteum? You seem to know. I didn't see many at UCL, Durham or Bristol but I didn't look with any particular care. Which institutions and which courses? I tend to look at History more than other subjects but then that's what the OP is interested in.

Needmoresleep · 01/09/2017 13:16

"Oxbridge is a different beast."

But so too are courses at Durham, UCL, St Andrews, Imperial, Warwick, LSE and so on. For whatever reason MN has an Oxbridge fixation. It is not always the best place and some courses are far easier to get on than others. (Norse studies, land economy etc..) LSE has not entered clearing or adjustment for any of its courses for a number of years. The same will be true for most courses at the other Universities I have just mentioned.

Marmenteum · 01/09/2017 13:18

Friends have got into Bristol and Durham through clearing. I can't remember the courses. Obviously not very good ones according to this.

Needmoresleep · 01/09/2017 13:21

Its not about good or bad. More about demand and supply. Lots of students from across the world will be interested in a degree in economics from the LSE. More than there will be places. There will be far less demand for, say, places in Italian and Spanish at Bristol. That does not mean that a Bristol MFL course is not a good one. Just that come the summer they have some unfilled places.

Needmoresleep · 01/09/2017 13:31

A whole different subject, but internationally there seems to be more interest in quasi-vocational degrees, which has meant that demand for such places in "brand name" institutions (Imperial, Oxbridge, LSE etc) has gone through the roof.

The British have traditionally seen a University education as an aim in itself, appreciating the value of studying humanities. Other countries will lend more weight to the status of the institution in which you study (I decided to research DS' post grad options a little so I could understand what he was talking about and discovered "the grad cafe" and its obsessional approach to "top 5", "top 15" and so on, US institutions) and on "class placement". Courses with a lot of competition coming from EU or international students are not necessarily "better". But can be much harder to get onto.

goodbyestranger · 01/09/2017 13:34

Marmenteum I don't think Durham went into clearing at all in the end and certainly not for the small number of courses offered there which are A. Bristol has very few A courses too. The OP is interested in History, which is A* at both.

Marmenteum · 01/09/2017 13:35

Ah OK. The mums definitely said they would have needed A*s!

goodbyestranger · 01/09/2017 13:44

Yes it sounds like the wrong end of the stick somewhere.

Marmenteum · 01/09/2017 14:11

Sorry Blush mustnt believe everything I'm told.

Whitlandcarm · 01/09/2017 15:48

Thank you all for the replies. She says she would continue working at a national museum she's at then travel/ possibly some digs abroad.

You are correct in saying Bristol is AAA in 2017. She got contextual of AAB. For 2018, Bristol has dropped the and now asks AAA for history.

She has no interest in applying to Durham having received her current offer from a similar rank uni- prefers a city.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 01/09/2017 16:31

Yes our neighbour is an academic in the department OP and I recall the neighbour talking about the advent of the A* as standard (or nearly standard). I had typed a post this morning saying that Bristol would almost certainly accept her so if she was fine with Bristol then a gap year would hold few risks (your original question). Then it got lost and I couldn't be bothered to re-type it.

No-one can give you any steers on Oxford any more than they could with a triple A* applicant.

Durham is a city, strictly speaking - just a diddly one.

boys3 · 01/09/2017 16:44

I suppose the question is what is really prompting the last minute desire to take a gap year?

Given Durham consistently ranks 1st or 2nd for History presumably she does have an offer at the elite end in terms of History already? Exeter ??

AAAA are pretty good grades :) Whilst some Unis could probably be counted on one hand do look for an A* for history that does not seem to be the case for ancient history or archaeology, so not sure the risk is that big - depending what degree she actually wants to do.

goodbyestranger · 01/09/2017 17:55

It's to have a shot at Oxford according to OP.

reallyanotherone · 01/09/2017 18:07

It used to be uni's would often accept slightly lower grades for those who already had results. AAB instead of AAA for example. Mainly because it was a definite offer and acceptance, and helped them calculate how many places to offer etc. Simple logistics. I know after my gap year i got nearly all unconditional offers, at slightly lower grades than the conditional offers.

Anyway. If she has a place she wants to keep, just defer. If she's changed her mind about a course or uni, then she'd definitely be better off reapplying next year.

I wish i had taken more years out. It was a bigger risk doing a course i wasn't sure about, than it would have been taking a few years to work out what i wanted.

I went, having been advised by my parents that i needed to go that year or i'd be too old, might change my mind, might not get in next year, etc. In many ways I regret it, as it wasn't really the right course and then it wasn't possible to go back and do one for the career path i wanted.

GnomeDePlume · 01/09/2017 18:10

It will be interesting to see how offers go next year. DD is looking at Chemical Physics at Bristol. 2017's grade was AstarAA. For 2018 the grade is AS A. This year the course was in clearing so I wonder if a few unis will have got caught out a bit and are resetting their sights.

This could work in the OP's DD's favour. A year to rethink and refocus her application. If she were applying for maths/physics/chemistry the I don't think gap year is considered a good idea but for archaeology gaining some relevant experience could be ideal (plus time to work on her squatting technique!).

Loopytiles · 01/09/2017 18:10

Where does she currently have a place? Would the "risk" be losing that place AND not getting a place at a preferred university?

GnomeDePlume · 01/09/2017 18:11

Sorry AAA not AS A!

SomeOtherFuckers · 01/09/2017 18:42

What the fuck does this post even say?

Are you saying she did fine and got in but now wants a gap year so she can apply for elite schools next sept?

user7214743615 · 01/09/2017 20:24

This year the course was in clearing so I wonder if a few unis will have got caught out a bit and are resetting their sights.

It's less about Clearing and more about the new A levels being harder/predictions of grades being more uncertain.

PiratePanda · 01/09/2017 20:34

Current University Admissions Tutor. "selecting or recruiting" is now rather old school since the government took the cap off the number of candidates we can select with AAB. Everything is now far more competitive, especially with fewer 18 year olds in the system, and courses that were "selecting" before are now nearly all "recruting".

4 As is excellent, and it is much easier and more straightforward to apply with your As in hand than applying with predicted grades.

But it won't get you into a course whose offer includes an A* unless there are contextual considerations.

We (top end RG) look favourably on gap years as long as the applicant is doing something directly relevant to what they want to study, so working or volunteering in a museum, going on digs, etc.

Your DC should know at this point which institutions have an AAA offer for History for 2018-19, and should focus on those, as well as institutions like Oxford that might consider AAA as a contextual offer.

user7214743615 · 01/09/2017 20:43

Pirate: there are no caps at all now, not just no caps for AAB+. (Caps were removed in steps.)

PiratePanda · 01/09/2017 20:57

True; I was just pointing out the moment at which selecting vs. recruiting stopped being relevant. (Except for Oxbridge of course, and in some subjects like Vet Medicine even they're having trouble.)

Needmoresleep · 01/09/2017 21:20

Sorry about the wrong terminology, but there are still oversubscribed courses where good applicants with the right grades will get rejected.

Yes Universities dont have a cap on numbers, but this does not mean all have decided to expand. Presumably this happens more often in lab subjects, but physical constraints, including accommodation, recruitment, etc also play a role in humanities.

I assume this is why Durham history students on average are offering considerably more UCAS tariff points than the standard offer and why LSE suggests they have about 11 applicants per history place.

It is worth knowing that you are applying to somewhere competitive, especially if they don't interview, as the PS is likely to be important.

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