Dd wobbling about her degree choice

[moralberyll]

Dd has chosen to study for a degree in criminology and social policy at a good Russel group university, her plan was to do the degree and then do something such as a law conversion, social work masters or a pgce as she can't decide on a specific career path at the moment. However, she is considering trying to find an alternative course in clearing as lots of people have scared her by saying she will not find a job with that degree and she needs to do something 'proper'. She has researched the course and the modules and she really likes the look of it. Is she really doomed in the employment market if she studies this course?

Doh, I'm not doing very well here. 😂 Sorry (again) I'd double checked too. 😬😬

Sorry Lucy.

Yes, she's done one facilitating subject whereas I (lawyer) did three and I think most lawyers I know at least two. My son who may well not be a lawyer has done two (results this week) plus economics. You can have a look at what subjects for A level people do who do particular courses at universities as sometimes surveys are done which give a fair idea of the kinds of subjects people have taken for the courses they then go on.

Facilitating subnjects are not the be all and end all but some non "facilitatings" are better regarded than others and if you can do at least 2 facilitating it tends to look better. Geography is the one she has done.

The huge problem with Law these days is the lack of training positions and the huge number of Law degrees available in a myriad of universities. Stats clearly show Oxbridge is favoured plus Russell Group and within that a pecking order. I think other careers are better with these A levels but cannot see teaching unless it is geography.

A Law degree would be perfectly accessible with those A level subjects.

People massively overestimate the importance of subject choice for Law, despite transparent publication of admissions policies.

(I am an RG Admissions Tutor for Law and know a lot of RG Admissions Tutors for Law. None of them pay much attention to subject choice, beyond issues of overly practical or applied A levels.)

With AI coming on, law is an occupation very likely to be automated.

It does seem a "niche" degree.

I say this as a law student:unless she's got a first from oxbridge doing something like history or whatever a GDL (law conversion) will not do her any good. A lot of universities offer law places in clearing (including reasonably good ones). This year there is an unusually small graduate cohort so it should be much easier for her to get a place on a decent course. If her grades are really that bad though she's better off taking the year off to resist a levels and then try again.

I didn't say that her grades were likely to be bad Dina?

The course that she currently has a place for requires ABB, I am aware that law generally requires slightly higher results than that though.

Law as a profession is changing, and will continue to change, substantially due to technology, but it's not going to be automated - there will still be lawyers, and legally trained people, but doing different things.

Plenty of students with decent 2(1)s outside of Oxbridge and a GDL get training contracts. Including ones with criminology degrees. Quite a lot of my students complain that non-law students get all the training places - not true, but they are well represented.

It will be possible to get a law place at a decent university (if not top ranking) with ABB - particularly if she's prepared to look outside the big cities.. Professionally, the issue is that many law firms have A level filters and won't look at anyone with less than ABB - so if she doesn't get ABB at A level, the pool of possible training contracts will become much smaller. Law Schools that require AAA often don't accept resits - although they may be a bit more flexible with the

If her grades are good then she should definitely do a law degree. There is far more competition these days for training contracts and pupilages. If you want her to train at a semi decent firm/chambers then her chances are far better doing law.

Law isn't available in clearing at the university that she would like to go to at the moment but she is still going to call them tomorrow and see if they can transfer her, if they can't then she is going to stick with her current course.

She could always go to a different uni. Law at a place like queen Mary for example (it's always in clearing there) is better than criminology from kings. And what about other courses like classics or international relations? Is there a hybrid course like law/international relations which will allow her to opt into a full time law degree at the end of her first year?

The university is Nottingham. I will talk to her about international relations. She has set her heart on Nottingham so i think it will be hard to persuade her to consider somewhere else, she loves the campus and it is the perfect distance from home etc. They only offer law with a language which isn't suitable for her.

Hm.
Do something that she will enjoy as she will do better in it.
Vocational is better - if you are certain what you want.
Know someone from Oxbridge who has found it difficult to compete with people with more relevant degrees from old polys in the job market this year.

There a lot of lawyers who go to Nottingham (and it was my son's back up choice this year by the way - it is a very nice university)

She needs to think about what career before changing subject but it is hard as most of them don't know what career they are going to want to do.

My two just got in to where they want to go - huge relief today.....

Currently trying to get through to Nottingham now, dd is panicking that all the places will be gone by the time she gets through, she is really hoping for law now so hopefully they will give her a place.

She has met the conditions for her original criminology and social policy offer so she is definitely onto that course.

I hope she gets what she wants but I am sure she will do well however it shakes out.

Dd did originally consider applying for law but assumed she wouldn't get in, I think she is regretting not giving it a go.

If they're not willing to transfer her to the Law course, might she be interested in a career in criminology research? I did a non-vocational subject at uni and received all the "ooh, what ever are you going to do with that? ", "do something more useful!" comments, but after graduation I went into an research position and spent years in that field. Sometimes people who aren't in a particular field just aren't aware of the career opportunities that exist in that field.

If they're not willing to transfer her to the Law course, might she be interested in a career in criminology research? I did a non-vocational subject at uni and received all the "ooh, what ever are you going to do with that? ", "do something more useful!" comments, but after graduation I went into an research position and spent years in that field. Sometimes people who aren't in a particular field just aren't aware of the career opportunities that exist in that field.

Just to say that social policy offers quite a broad range of areas to specialise in - can't speak to the lawyer part - but there are loads of careers that social policy would offer a good basis for - policy, private sector graduate trainee, management, social work, local authority, civil service, police etc.

Yes Social Policy from Nottingham isn't something to panic about.

If she was in love with the course a few days ago, how much and why has she changed her mind?

Fifteen minute short with a cup of tea and a good chat, might be a good idea.

m.unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007154FT-8L67

www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/what-can-i-do-with-my-degree/public-administration-and-social-policy

Nottingham are already full for Law so criminology and social policy it is, dd is slightly disappointed but happy that she has a confirmed place at least. Onwards and upwards! Thank you to everybody who posted on this thread for all of your help and advice.