Dd wobbling about her degree choice

[moralberyll]

Dd has chosen to study for a degree in criminology and social policy at a good Russel group university, her plan was to do the degree and then do something such as a law conversion, social work masters or a pgce as she can't decide on a specific career path at the moment. However, she is considering trying to find an alternative course in clearing as lots of people have scared her by saying she will not find a job with that degree and she needs to do something 'proper'. She has researched the course and the modules and she really likes the look of it. Is she really doomed in the employment market if she studies this course?

I'd agree, who is it that is telling her these things and undermining her like this? Going to uni is daunting enough without this too. Wanting to do th course and enjoying it is half the battle. She can always shift courses or change her mind later. I'd also advise against changing her mind at the last minute.

My daughter is doing law at an rg uni and I can honestly say you need to want to, it's not an easy degree. None of them are, but law is onerous.

Criminology is a brilliant social sciences degree with lots of options - in related careers as well as in more general graduate careers. Most graduate careers don't require a specific degree, so the world is her oyster.
Law is not a good choice as an alternative if she's really excited about crime and criminology - crime is a very small part of a law degree, and she'd have to do a lot of compulsories in subjects she may not be as keen on, like contract law and property law. The conversion is a wiser choice if she is interested in practicing criminal law very specifically, because it's more intensive and so you spend less time doing stuff you're not interested in.

When you say practicing criminal law via the GDL, I assume you mean as a solicitor?

I regret to say this degree is unlikely to be good enough to be a barrister in the current climate. DDs friend with a Criminology degree has got nowhere and the GDL and professional courses are very expensive without massive scholarships or a training contract. One friend with Criminology and Law, which is a qualifying degree, is now on her way to being a solicitor at a minor firm. Big city law firm is very difficult with this degree as well.

I think therefore her future intentions are important regarding the degree. There are so many graduates now that competition in the field of law is cut-throat with even Oxbridge/Harvard graduates finding it tough. It is best to go into law with a law degree from a RG university or a conventional subject such as History, MFL etc and choose your career option carefully. Horses for courses! However there are plenty of other options but these need to be researched and suitable work experience undertaken.

I can also say the GDL covers all aspects of law. It certsinly does not concentrate on criminal law. You will have to learn plenty about law you won't practice!

To clarify - if you are doing a degree you are doing law for three years and most of it is not criminal. Naturally you have to do subjects you don't like in the GDL, but, because it's an intensive one year course there's less of it and you get it over with quickly! Every year we get students disappointed by law programmes because they assume it's going to be mostly crime - they'd probably be better to study Criminology and then spend part of one year doing the rest, rather than spending most of their 3 year degree doing subjects they're not interested in.
The Bar is hyper competitive generally - I don't think the degree subject really matters as long as it is sufficiently academic (which criminology definitely is). You need a First and successful applicants for pupillage often have postgrad degrees or professional experience elsewhere. There's only around 500 pupillages per year offered around the country, and a lot of hyper-intelligent people going for them....
I know several Criminology graduates who have training contracts in city firms. Again, the degree subject is fine - it's just very competitive generally.

If she hasn't already get her to look at Unistats. I have just grabbed this one from Birmingham as I don't know which university she has chosen and it looks like around 5-6% of graduates in that area are unemployed after the degree which doesn't sound bad to me.

Actually DD is a barrister and you don't need a first but you may well do in some areas but not criminal. Criminology is not as good as some other degrees in this ultra competitive and very conservative world. You are up against it without a law degree or a really academic subject from a very highly regarded RG. It's best to understand the market which is ludicrously competitive.

She is not dead set on a law conversion, it was just one of the ideas she would be interested in, she is also interested in going into teaching, social work or something like probation, she would like to keep her options open as she keeps changing her mind.

A 2:1 from a RG University will open doors marked "graduate entry". Do what she is interested in. These days many people switch after first degrees to another area. My DD on her postgraduate nursing made friends with a law graduate from Oxbridge!

Social Work and Probation would be ideal. Teaching would need a rethink on subject in my view. A friend's DD with a sociology degree has gone into HR. A friend's DD with a Psychology degree is doing a Masters in Social Work. I think keeping your mind open helps but also be realistic and do the research because some careers are so difficult.

There have not been 500 pupillages offered for several years now Gannet and are lot are now competitive. Eg: three offered by a chambers but only one taken on so even worse than bare figures. If you advise students you may need to know this.

I think its its a good choice on the understanding that she may need a top up course for a profession. Teaching may be out at least at Primary because a large percentage of her studies has to relate to the national curriculum I think. Probation, civil service, social work and general graduate schemes all possible.

For teaching I was under the impression you can reach anything in which you have an A level. Is this no longer the case?

I mean as long as you have a degree of course and a PGCE .....

It's a perfectly solid degree. Tell her not to listen to the ignorant and whatever she does don't downgrade via clearing.

(If for some reason, she later wanted to teach secondary she would get into a citizenship PGCE with that and could teach sociology or similar to sixth formers. But frankly, her other shortlisted careers sound more interesting.)

I did better at my A levels than predicted and in one way I wish I'd have gone to clearing to see what I could have done. However I studied Politics at a Red Brick uni and I did social policy as one of my electives. Couldn't have done a whole degree in it - boring!

I agree with pp saying criminology is the new media studies or American studies. A bit like studying law or psychology at alevel I suppose.

My daughters did the law conversion.
"English language, Business studies and Geography" are gonig to make it very hard for her as only geography is really counted/ proper facilitating subject so I don't think most law is likely to be open to her with those A levels. The school should have made that much clearer to her.

So if teaching might be what she wants then she should do geography at university (which is also likely to make law a bit easier to go into) so she can teach geography.

If she might want to go into the police force on their graduate programme her chosen degree might well be fine.

As a lawyer who went the conversion route, I am as certain as I can be that I would not be a solicitor if I'd done a law degree. The degree itself is very academic and doesn't have much bearing on life as a solicitor (barristers may be different, I can't speak to that) and I suspect that would have put me off pursuing the law as a career. The most useful skill you would learn is legal research which is taught on the conversion anyway. Despite it being the long way around, i have no regrets that I did a degree I loved and converted later. I didn't know what I wanted from a career at 18.

If she is bright then she should probably do a more academic course. It will set her up long term.

I personally don't know any secondary teachers who haven't started their career teaching the subject they did at uni. I'm an English grad and teach English but have also been asked to teach Media and Drama in the past, once I worked my way up the ladder in school.

I know that there are science and maths teachers in my school with a PE background too but they all started as PE teachers for some time before being asked to step in and plug gaps in other curriculum areas. I think that if she decides she really wants to become a teacher, she'd need a degree in the subject she wants to teach.

I adored my law degree and use what I learned on it every day, even now as a lawyer. 50% of us read law at university and 50% something else. It just depends on the person what is the right degree for the teenager.

It is really hard to get a PGCE place without a National Curriculum subject degree.

@LucySky2017
English language, Business studies and Geography" are gonig to make it very hard for her as only geography is really counted/ proper facilitating subject so I don't think most law is likely to be open to her with those A levels

This is incorrect. It's been a while since your DDs graduated so perhaps you are just a bit out of date. English language and geography are both considered facilitating subjects by RAg Unis RUSSELL Group informed choices info

Sorry, my last post sounded stroppy. It wasn't meant to.

Lit is facilitating not Lang....

Regardless Law perfectly achievable with Lang rather than Lit - even at RGs