Personal Statements

[whateveryousay]

Am I the only person drafting their child's personal statement?

Please tell me I'm not alone.

It's all about the predicted grades on UCAS forms. Some admissions staff do not even read personal statements and let's be honest not many stand out. I have read hundreds in the past. Tartle is bang on the money.

The one UCAS form that stuck in the mind of someone I know that is a STEM admissions tutor was a lad who worked all weekend in a really menial poorly paid job, he explained how he was trying to save money to help him study.

Love of the subject AND showing you can graft are the key points. DS has just unfortunately lost his job as the business shut down but at 16 has worked for three years already.

You really should not be writing his PS, just checking.

"It's all about the predicted grades on UCAS forms"

for many courses it is, but certainly not all. You would be doing a bright child wanting to read economics a real disservice if you suggested they need not worry about a PS....as DS learned to his cost. A 4A* 1A prediction is presumably as good a prediction as you get, yet still not good enough for Warwick. The same applies to medicine. Neither courses will be looking for gifted creative writers. They will want students who are capable and motivated.

But they do provide guidance. Just follow it and don't get hung up on an assumed need to be creative.

whateveryousay maths is the least likely to rely on a PS for offers unlike Needmoresleep's examples of medicine or economics (for some universities) where the PS can be an important component of decision making for offers.
Tell your DS to make it factual at this stage, i.e. list what he has done outside ordinary school maths. He could record himself rather than writing initially. You say he is genuinely enthusiastic so perhaps he has wanted to do extra questions in a topic or self taught himself something or done some maths competitions. Then list anything else which has shown his liking for problem solving or geometry or mechanics or whatever.
A first sentence or introduction does not have to be flowery, just an honest statement of why he wants to spend 3 years doing maths.

A personal statement is not a creative writing task - it's a factual statement about oneself and ones motivation. Students will have to do similar things across their time in university, whatever the discipline - applications for study abroad and summer school opportunities; roles in student societies; internships. And of course jobs. Are you going to write his job applications for him when the time comes?

It is true that in many cases a PS is not paid attention to, but in cases when it is, it needs to be personal, not formulaic - I don't think I could spot if a parent had written it compared to, say, an applicant writing it following online models or prescriptive school guidance, but it's always better to see something that clearly expresses one individual's interest and motivation, rather than a list of tick-box achievements that anyone could have written.

But writing a PS is the first chance to practice an essential skill for success in life - and thus it is important to face up to.

In addition, your DS will sign a declaration when submitting his UCAS form stating that the PS is all his own work. The bulk of information UCAS gives out here is about plagiarism detection, and there's no software that can detect you writing his PS, but, albeit with the best of intentions, him submitting a PS that you have written is fraud.

The only thing I did was to help them get the word count down.
One spent weeks staring at a blank screen and the other dashed it off easily.
As others has said, for Maths, they won't be looking for creative writing skills but for an interest in the subject. Aside from Oxbridge they will probably only be looking at the grade predictions and will probably never even read the PS.

Why not get him to talk to you about why he wants to do maths, and how excited he is about it, and what extra reading he has done, and Olympiads and Kangaroos while you take notes? Then at least there is something in his own words for him to use as a starting point.

My DD is happy to do it alone with a few suggestions. My DS told my DH and
I the gist of what he enjoyed and was interested in and we put it into words on papwr then ge adjusted that.
Got on top course , is thriving and his writing skulls are sufficient for his course.
Whatever works. Just get him to give you examples of what he likes so it is all about him with your grammar.
Others can frown. Whatever works and by the way my DS wasvinterviewed and received 14/14.

My typos are because I'm on the phone. Apologies.

My advice is to read a few examples (Studential, The Student Room), feel utterly depressed and then make a list of cliches to avoid. The hardest thing for ds was to try to convey a "passion" for his subject without using the words "interested in", "passionate about", "from an early age", "developed a love for" etc etc.

And to "show" not "tell" what has been gleaned from reading or studying, rather than a long list of books or topics. Google "Popular Maths books" or whatever subject it is and then read a few, and say what you liked or disliked or found preposterous about them. That would add a bit of personality to a Maths personal statement.

Is your son at college? If so, his personal tutor will be able to help him

That sounds like a lovely idea but it's not going to happen at a lot of schools. 🤣😂In my DCs leafy comp it was almost impossible to get anyone to read a final draft let alone help them with it. I think some parents who have kids that attend grammars or private schools do not fully grasp how little help some D.C. get from their schools. My dc attended a school in a nice area but one where most years no DC would get into Oxbridge or do medicine etc. The support just wasn't there. I sometimes cringe when posters are going on about how independent and responsible their DC are when they've spent thousands or even hundreds of thousands on their education and all the support that goes with it.

Just no. No, no, no, no. We interview and I ask questions about their personal statement

Excellent point but the vast majority of courses don't Interview

I have had 4 DC go to Uni in the past 6 years. Three wrote their own statements with NO help from me and absolutely NO help from their school. One was applying for medicine and I suspect it was very obvious that his PA was his own work. English isn't his best subject and his PA sounded clumsy at best 😱 however the contents were good and we figured he might even be credited for writing it himself. He got three offers so presumably it was ok.

My 4th DC is the hardest working person I know - she self taught herself a complete A'level and got herself an A* - however she was also stressed out and put an awful lot of pressure on herself. She ended up getting in a right tizz over her PA and asking me to help. It was for a stem subject so didn't need to be too wordy by even so she saw it as a massive chore that was getting in the way of her revision. In the end I sat with her and we knocked a statement out together. She was really grateful and I was glad to be of help.

Everyone's kids are different and if you never have t help your kids out then good for you! Unfortunately some of us have kids that still need a bit of help from time to time. The suggestion that if they need help then they aren't ready for university is complete rubbish.

As someone who's parents did this for them, don't do it, yes it sucks like hell, but you'll help him more in the long run if you make him to do it (with proof reading and slight guidance if needed) then if you full on write it out for me

*him

whateveryousay Tue 25-Jul-17 08:17:07
"The problem here is because my son is very good at STEM subjects, but this seems to him like more of a creative writing task, and he's never been any good at that."

Does he realise that he will have to do pretty much the same thing at job interviews throughout his career? That whatever job he applies to - even if it's serving coffee at the local Starbucks- he will have to sell himself and explain why he is a good person for that job? That though the personal statement may not be crucial for admissions (though that depends) it is a good opportunity to practise a skill he is going to have to develop however little he enjoys it?

I work in an admissions role for a science dept in a Russell Group university. Contrary to what has been said up thread, we read every single personal statement we get!

They're a great insight into an applicant's motivation for studying their chosen subject and very often form the basis for discussion in interviews, especially if the applicant has completed projects or work experience relevant to the academic area of interest.

We also read every statement because we often see evidence of an applicant requiring additional assistance (eg if they're dyslexic), or mitigating circumstances if that is relevant. Applicants mustn't be afraid to include this - we use it to assign more 'understanding' interviewers and, if the applicant is offered a place, it's used to assign appropriate supervisors, signpost additional assistance, etc. It certainly won't count against the applicant - not in our dept, anyway!

These days, universities are more inclined to say what they're actually looking for in a PS. At our university, we hold talks about this at our Open Days - it's worth keeping an eye out for these.

Oh back to the original post: by all means proofread and give feedback on structure, etc but please don't write it. We CAN tell!

The problem here is because my son is very good at STEM subjects, but this seems to him like more of a creative writing task, and he's never been any good at that.
Actually as a STEM lecturer I think this is the biggest misconception I come across. Even maths students need to be able to create a report or an email. Writing about something with a basis in fact does not equal 'uncreative'. It's a life-skill that takes practice and will be needed at University and beyond. In fact I am a strong believer in the desirability of a broader curriculum post-16 to facilitate this.

Totally agree, slightlyperturbed.

Quite agree, Pynk. Ds's sixth form college offered no help whatsoever. Otoh a poster on here a couple of years ago mentioned that her dc's top private school brought in a team of writers during "Personal Statement Week" to sit with the students and "help" them.

It does make me smile when some posters trumpet that they never help their dc and just leave it to the school . Ds's school was quite adamant that every institution is equal and I sat through an information evening being told that a degree from the University of the South West of England is absolutely the same as one from Oxford.

I helped my DD, she also lucky enough to have 2 teachers at school help too. She applied for vet med so and for one of the unis it was v imp to include the information to show she had the requisite wrok experience, all in the word limit, so it was a tall order.

For a year 13 student the task is immense and hugely important so I had no issue with having helped her to organise her thoughts and polish the words, her v. unspectacular comps school were fab too.

Some kids, for lots of reasons need help and support why not give it?

I agree about giving support and helping with checking content and editing, but that really is not the same as writing it for them! (It's the difference between Katie Price 'writing' a novel and JK Rowling)

I work in an admissions role for a science dept in a Russell Group university. Contrary to what has been said up thread, we read every single personal statement we get!

I think the earlier comments stand true though. The majority of universities won't look at personal statements. Russell Group, Oxbridge and other top unis (Bath, Surrey etc) only represent say 30 out of 130'ish Universities in the U.K. I'd expect the top Unis to be more selective.

Numbers wise the number of students going to middle and lower tariff Unis far exceeds the numbers going to RG and other top Unis -

Oh I agree, Pynk. I was just saying what happens in our place.

I think the difference is also whether admissions are carried out in-department or centrally. In my experience, centrally-processed applications (including those where I work: not all are done in-department) tend to place more emphasis on predicted grades only, rather than a combination of grades and PS.

The applications process is carried out in-department where interviews are compulsory, as academics are more involved in shortlisting. (Again, just speaking from my current experience!)

Excellent point but the vast majority of courses don't Interview

But all forms are read. Personal statements are read.

And others say, this is the start of young people starting to do this sort of thing for themselves. OP are you going to write his job applications for him? What you can do now is give him the tools to do a difficult task, but you really mustn't do it for him.

Oh yeah it totally depends on wether the uni has Centralised decision making (i.e. All forms read by admissions officers) or academic led decision making. Academic led is more personalised and nuanced but I have also experienced cases where I feel decisions made have been influenced by the subconscious biases of the assessor.

All courses that interview will of course read personal statements and you never know when you will end up in a tie break situation/ clearing this isn't a reason for students to ignore it. It just sometimes makes me sad that so much effort and stress goes into something that might never be read.

What some students find really helpful, especially if they don't know where to start, is the three sheets method. Basically one one sheet of paper they should write everything they have done in the last 3 years- inside and outside of school, clubs,sports, jobs, wider reading, work ex etc anything they can think of. Then put it aside and on the second sheet they should brainstorm all of the attributes they think are needed to be a successful student on that course. They might want to look at the relevant websites, especially in medical courses where they basically give you a list.

On the last sheet they then pair up the examples with the skills and order them from most to least relevant and in themes. They then can start to write sentences about them.

Generally we would look for

1. why have you chosen the programme
2. what in your background makes you a suitable student to study on the programme (academic focus) and what have you done to prepare academically
3. what personal qualities do you have that would make you a good fit for the course and the university

At least 75% should be 1&2 rising to 85-90 for oxbridge, imperial, Ucl, Lse etc.

Tartle - how can you specify that you would be a good fit for the university when the same personal statement is submitted to all five? Surely you can only emphasise your suitability for the course.