Medicine 2018?

[Katisha]

Is there already a thread for medicine applications for 2018 entry?
If not can I start one?
Wondered if anyone knew about the Birmingham GCSE situation as DS has A stars and As at GCSE and likely to be predicted A stars at A level but is coming up on their offers calculator as unlikely to get an interview.
Is it pointless to apply to Birmingham if not all stars at GCSE? Didn't get a star in biology.

"but if we hadn't gone to Brstol last week DD might have put it as one of her choices. As it turned out it was a no from her."

So what's changed from before and after the visit?

"Interestingly they talked about where the students will be based throughout the training. The overseas part is optional at all the med schools DD looked at, and most unis send students to other hospitals within the same county."

Which is exactly the point I was trying to make, i.e. one doesn't stay in a particular location/place for long. So what's the point of looking at uni accommodation etc and let the small matter of whether e.g. bus ride or no bus ride be the deciding factor in applying to a particular med school?

At this point pre application there is nothing to be lost from going and listening to some talks about what medical school is like. Indeed, what university life is like - so why not go and visit a few if you can manage it?
I think everyone knows that you don't necessarily get to choose your school ( though some lucky kids do) but visiting is a way of learning more about what a medicine course is like and what university life is like.
I dont think many prospective med students are unaware of the hurdles but thats no reason not to look around if you want to .

DD just went to a couple of open days at nearby medical schools on her own. It helped clarify what she did and did not want. She did not apply to either, for different reasons.

She had not visited any she applied to. In practice there were only three that she was interested in and who were likely to take her. She also tried Nottingham but was a point below their cut off that year.

It really did not matter. The offers were too late for her to go to post offer days. One offered her a post interview tour which she really enjoyed. A similar tour was supposed to be on offer at the second of her three interviews, but the others in her group declined and she felt unable to insist she wanted to see the University. A pity in that it then became a no brainier to accept the place she was enthusiastic about rather than the place she had not really seen. (The third was local, indeed where she was born and they did not offer her a place.)

If we had known she might have been more prepared to say she had not been to an open day and so really wanted the tour. I suspect then others would joined her.

Latisha, suggesting London is grotty is a bit of a sweeping statement. It's my home town, I think it is great and my son (albeit a medic) has really enjoyed studying there. Indeed sufficiently to choose it over Oxford for his Masters. I think it really is worth encouraging young people to look openly at the advantages and disadvantages of different medical schools rather that through the prism of their parent's prejudices. As Peternas says, it about finding the best fit.

peteneras why are you being so snippy?

DD has an inflammatory problem with her knees and Bristol's hills would be a problem. It is also horrible to get to from where we live.

"So what's the point of looking at uni accommodation etc and let the small matter of whether e.g. bus ride or no bus ride be the deciding factor in applying to a particular med school?"

That's why we didn't look at accommodation or worry about buses.I think you are mixing me up with another poster.

What makes you think you are so important that my post/message is directed at you and you alone Lonicera? It's not as if you're the only one posting here, nor are you the OP, nor your child being the only one applying to med school 2018. Clearly, you are being neurotic by calling me snippy, expecting me to know where you live or what condition your DD has whilst all I'm doing is trying to help everyone with a child applying to med school 2018 from my experience in the most economical sense without having to spend time and money visiting med schools throughout the land - time and money better used in revising for your UKCAT/BMAT etc. Like I said, at this stage there's nothing to be gained by physical visits to possible med schools that you cannot find out from the internet as Needmoresleep has confirmed, someone I understand her child got an offer from a school she never visited when her UCAS application went in as indeed my child who's just qualified with a school that his very first visit to was for the interview - a school one might say it's in my backyard (London)!

And you still haven't answered my question what has changed in Bristol before and after your visit? One more question, assuming hypothetically (but which may very well be true), Bristol is the only school that will accept your child, are you going to reject it inspite of its hills and what not?

peterenas, I totally agree with the sentiment, which is exactly what I said about my DD, however I don't agree that there is nothing to gain from open days information wise that isn't available on the internet. I was told some info from a mother taking her child to an open day that despite my intensive research on the internet, just wasn't there to see. I can't remember what it was specifically (information overload!) but I do remember that it excluded that school from consideration and even when I looked again for that info online, it wasn't anywhere to read.

So for that purpose, I think it could be very helpful. DD has narrowed her choice down to 6 with 2 certain because we strongly believe she has her best chance of an interview there. We haven't visited any of them because of our workload and just not having the time. I work FT in a demanding job and my week-ends have been packed all summer. DD is working every Saturdays at the nursing home and volunteering every other Sundays.

I did consider going to Bristol open day, but it was on the same day than the BMAT! Looked at going afterwards, but there were no more slots for the time we would have been able to get there. I don't regret it, it would have been a long exhausting day.

In a way, we have found that not being the top applicant with all top results made it easier as the restriction is made for DD! She still has a reasonable chance of an offer, just limited to fewer places, which is fine since you can only pick 4 anyway!

I personally think that parents/students who have gone to open days have been very considerate to share the information they learned there and for that I am grateful. They don't have to do that. I do feel that as parents of medicine applicants, we should support each other as we are all in it together. Some will get in, some won't, but we will all have gone through the stress of supporting our children through the application process so we understand each other :)

We have been to 6 open days and enjoyed all of them. DD made me visit every on campus accommodation at Nottingham & was glad I'd worn comfy shoes. She found out lots of info about the different style courses and that working at McDonalds is better than shadowing your surgeon daddy (her daddy works in IT). We laughed at some of the questions but learned from others. And she decided she preferred campus to town. Now she might not get any interviews let alone offers, although her UKCAT is goodish and she has good GCSEs and predicted grades. But she knows where she would chose if she does get a choice.

I agree Swingofthings

DD has found out a lot more about the course content by attending the open days, and by talking to the students. I never went to university so it is a steep learning curve for me, and as DD isn't the most self confident of people it means she can discuss it all with me and I can support her in whatever decision she makes.

I am realistic enough to realise that she may not get into medical school, and so is DD, but she does have a plan B in place. She also discovered other medical related courses at the open days that aren't shown online or published in the university prospectuses (prospecti?).

So all in all we felt that the open days were beneficial.

We have been to four open days and whilst I agree it is obviously not essential it is very helpful to go to the admissions talks and to get a feel for the medical school by talking to current students etc. We do not live in the UK and so for my DS it was also important so that he could see what going to a UK university was all about and what he was aiming for. We are visiting Manchester on the 30th which will be our final one! I think everyone knows how competitive it is to get a place so whilst they may not be able to 'choose' their favourite they still have to select the best fit choices for them.
Anyone else on here who's DC is taking the IB instead of A levels?

We will be in Manchester on the 30th as well Hummingbird

At the subject talk at York they told us that students will get sent to Hull or York and can't choose where. He said that the students are so grateful to be accepted into medical school that they don't mind where they go.

I supposed it all comes down to individual stats. If your child got 12 A GCSEs, expected 4 A A levels and scored 750 Band 1 at UKCAT and worked for 2 years in a nursing home, volunteering for the last 5 years, then it would make sense to go and visit some schools as the likelihood of getting offers to interview from most is very high.

My DD has a decent chance at only 3 UKCAT schools right now, so clearly no point in visiting!! The thing is, you could have a decent chance at only one school and be offered a place there as opposed to someone who would get an interview wherever they applied but be rejected by all at that next stage. Getting to the interview is only half of the battle!

I do agree that you can often glean things on Open Days that are not obvious from the prospectus or website.

Dd applied to Cardiff without visiting as she thought she had a good chance of getting an interview but when she did go for the interview & spoke to students & faculty she discovered the teaching style was not what she expected. Obviously if she had got an offer from there & it was her only one, she would have had to just get on with it regardless.

I was at an Open Day yesterday for a different degree with ds & it was very illuminating. A few snide remarks about other faculties were quite revealing.

Not going to Manchester, but this is one of DD's choice too, so would be welcome any feedback!

One of things DD was going to call them to ask -because indeed, schools are very good at talking to people on the phone and answer any question!- is this:

On their website, they said that last year, they invited 1000 applicants, based on their UKCAT results (when applicants have met all requirements), but also state ' UKCAT scores from UK/EU candidates who come from similar educational and socio-demographic backgrounds are considered against each other. This is conducted using supplementary information provided by publicly available datasets.'

I'm not to clear what they mean by that. Are they putting people in say 3 different categories, based on the socio-demographic backgrounds, and then invite the top 333 for each category? In which case, it could mean that someone from a lower background gets an invite to interview with a lower UKCAT result than someone from a higher background?

Apology for the numerous grammar/spelling errors, writing is not my forte!

Swingofthings, this is how I interprete the school in question as to how they select, interview and offer their places:

1. the first 1000 applicants who meet the school's minimum requirements and with the highest UKCAT scores irrespective of where or which school they come from will be invited for interview;

2. at the interview stage, applicants who come from similar demographic backgrounds, schools, etc will be 'grouped' together and the best from each 'group' will receive offers allocated to that particular 'group'. But this is all very arbitrary and I suppose not set in stone.

3. in theory, applicants from the most distanvantaged 'group' and not having the stella academic results or performed superbly at interview compared to the top 'group' may/will still get an offer.

4. finally, one-third of the total 1000 applicants who came for the interview and subsequently divided into the various 'groups' will get an offer for the 333 available places. It is NOT necessary the various 'groups' are divided into equal numbers.

Thanks Peteneras, that would make sense, but they've quoted this under the heading 'application of the UKCAT threshold', therefore the first stage of selection before interview.

At the universities we looked at over the last two days they said that they both offered places to roughly 600 students to fill 200 places. Given that these students will get offers elsewhere this makes sense, but what happens if say 250 students accept a place at one university?

". . .but they've quoted this under the heading 'application of the UKCAT threshold', therefore the first stage of selection before interview."

The whole purpose of the UKCAT, swingofthings, is that it is the only tool (other than the BMAT) that unis can use to ‘compare apples with apples’, if you like. It is supposed to be an exam that does not favour any particular group of people, whether they come from an affluent or professional family background or from the worst big city council estates; or whether they went to Eton or the Grange Comprehensive School of Yadayada. In other words, it’s a “fair” gauge med schools think they can use to assess the potential and aptitude of a candidate before they can confidently admit them to what is a costly, long and demanding programme like medicine.

But whether you agree with this method of assessing potential medical candidates or not is another matter. I personally don’t agree with it 100 per cent. But if this is the system then I think one should try to ace the system. I therefore, cringe when I read posters at MN taking a relaxed attitude towards the UKCAT/BMAT treating it as a secondary matter. I do not understand either, why some of them take their UKCAT as early as possible – so that they can go away for their holidays, perhaps – whilst they could have spent a longer time revising for it e.g. practising questions, improving your speed, etc. Yes, practise and more practise will certainly improve your score no matter what others say.

But the snag about delaying taking your UKCAT is that you may not be offered a test centre near where you want. I know of cases where people are sent miles and miles away at the later stages but they have to accept in order to meet the dateline

"But whether you agree with this method of assessing potential medical candidates or not is another matter. I personally don’t agree with it 100 per cent"

Interestingly, one of DD's doctors is very sceptical about the UKCAT. DD spent all summer practising for the UKCAT and took it the week before returning to school as she knew that once she went back to school she wouldn't have the time or inclination to practise it.

And conversely my DS took it a couple of weeks after his last A level exam whilst he was still in exam revision mode. He aced it and then was able relax the whole summer.

Whatever suits is fine

But whether you agree with this method of assessing potential medical candidates or not is another matter.
My query was not about debating whether socio-economical factors should be taken into consideration, I was asking how it affected the selection because it could be the difference between DD being offered an interview or not (as she is currently very close to the 7th decile).

I do not understand either, why some of them take their UKCAT as early as possible – so that they can go away for their holidays, perhaps – whilst they could have spent a longer time revising for it e.g. practising questions, improving your speed, etc. Yes, practise and more practise will certainly improve your score no matter what others say.
Actually, stats are not supporting this statement as final scores in the previous years have gone down by up to 40 points (last year) when counting results in the last 6 weeks.

I expect it is not a case of getting worse the more you study, obviously, but that those less likely to be committed and therefore to prepare hard are more likely to wait until the last minute to do it. However, everything I've read indicates that anything between 3 and 6 weeks is the ultimate amount of time to prepare after which you tend to plateau however many more mocks/practice you do whenever you take it.

I agree about the plateau bit. DD did about 6 weeks practise and couldn't have improved her scores. She did the two mock tests online, but scored better in the real test.

I don't understand why they introduced the situational judgement test other than to discount anyone in band 4 because no university we have looked at are interested in it. DD was surprised that in the interim results the mode was band 2. She said it was just common sense and scored in band 1.

I have looked at the various universities DD is interested in and they don't really state which band in the mean score they would consider candidates from, other then excluding bands 1 and 2. I know that Newcastle will only take students from deciles 8 and 9 and DD is in the 6th one, so she knows it would be pointless applying there.

Haha DD got band 4 in the SJT. Totally unprecedented as she scored 3 times band 1 and once band 2 in the 4 mock tests she did. She too found it obvious during the mocks so we have no idea what happened as she felt the actual test was no different. Maybe it is therefore considered too subjective by a number of schools, Thank God for DD!

I'm sure I've read that one or two schools did score the SJT at first stage. I think one was in London but can't remember which one.

Mine thought the UKCAT was devised by a true sadist. She did it way back at beginning of August as wanted it out of the way. Did much better than she expected (& better than all her mocks) and got SJT 1 and is in 7th decile so has a few choices but can't apply to all. Nottingham score the SJT before interview and several did after (it is used as one of the MMI station marked). See those open days were useful . Some won't look at SJT 4 so be careful where they apply as shame to be discounted just for that.
I think it's a bonkers way to choose for interview but I suppose everyone has amazing exams so they have to use something. The Liverpool admissions lady said she thought it was unfair that they are judged on something that takes 2 hours and not 2 years which is why they use it with other information. To be honest you need a degree in applying just to apply !!