University in America?

[PossumInAPearTree]

Or college I guess.

Dd is interested. I have no clue where to start looking at stuff. She's started looking but is focusing on the nice stuff, good looking campus, etc.

I can't get my head round finances. I can find fees, etc. But as a U.K. Student do you have to pay it all upfront? I'm guessing the English system of getting the course for free upfront and paying it back via future wages won't apply?

A lot of the courses she is looking at in the subject she wants to do talks about been able to do the major in that subject if doing well in prescribed modules in the first year. Is this standard? That you have to do a more general degree in year one and then specialise in year two?

Speaking as someone who went to one of the ivy league unis, (as did my 2 siblings, all of us on scholarships) - the ivies are absolutely fantastic if (a) you are seriously smart (b) you are prepared to work your ass off (c) you want to be in an environment where everyone around you is working their asses off. It's mega expensive, obviously, but it's worth it for those people who fulfil (a), (b) and (c) above. (I loved it, btw!)

But just to clarify, echoing bojorojo's comment above, the scholarships weren't easy to get. We are not from the UK or the US; we were from another country, and basically each of us (the 3 of us in turn, we all went to different ivy league colleges) were amongst the top achievers that year in the whole country. Not meaning to brag, just as an example of how competitive the process was.

How does anyone get the money though? The scholarships are so difficult to get so only viable for a few students from GB to go there. People are prepared to work, but how do you borrow the money if you do not get a worthwhile scholarship, or two or three? The money you need is more than the value of lots of people's houses! If you are seriously smart, does Oxford or Cambridge hold you back? Funny how Americans love to go to these universities!

Right, re money, good question! I mean, as you know, as other people have commented upthread… basically, Americans start saving from birth for their college funds, which is not common practice in the UK. Secondly, the ivies have need-blind admission for US citizens (not for foreigners, generally, although someone above mentioned Harvard and Yale?). Thirdly, the bottom line is that if they REALLY want you, they will pay for you, whoever you are and wherever you come from... so there's that.

From my perspective, I don't know yet whether my kids will want to go to the US, or whether they'll even get accepted to one of the ivies. But just on a financial level, if i had to choose between paying for UK private school fees, and ivy college fees, I'd rather pay for the Ivy fees. It might not translate into a high-flying job (especially if they come back to the UK, and all their friends/contacts are in the US), but just for the sheer joy of being in an environment where there's no limit to what you can learn, I would gladly pay. It's like an all-you-an-eat buffet!! It's not for everyone, but for those who want to be in that environment, it's incredible.

I didn't grow up here, and I didn't go to Ox/Cam, so can't comment on that bit.

We looked into this for our DS. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that the SAT includes tests in maths and English plus an essay - if your DC has given up maths with relief after GCSE (or similarly your scientist has waved goodbye to essay writing) then this is something to contend with.

DS did a summer course in London on how to pass the SAT. His scores on test papers after that course guided us to where he might be able to get in and we went to the Fulbright College Fair and spoke to likely candidates. Finally we went out to the US and looked at a couple. And that was the killer. Shared rooms with strangers (sometimes 4 to a room in the first year, in bunk beds) very few en suite bathrooms and no possibility to self cater at all just did not appeal - and all the cheerleaders and frat parties and all that jazz just could not tip the balance. Yes it's great to have the possibility to keep studying a wide range of subjects before having to specialise but when you actually have to live there, so very far away from home, DC's need to be absolutely sure they can cope with that side of life.

My DN spent a sandwich year in the US. She was I think doing publishing at Oxford Brookes. She had to get good results in year 1 to be eligible for the opportunity.

What MrsBernardBlack said.
Tell her to do the maths and come up with a plan how she's going to pay you back.

Then look into uk courses with a year in the US and in the meantime send her to do CampAmerica.

My bff did a uni course with a sandwich year in a US uni (didn't pay fees). She had a good time but made friends with the other "expats" rather than the americans and admits she didn't really get the full on american colleage experience (if that exists).

I had friends who got Fulbrights to Harvard for a postgrad year all expenses paid, and had a great time.

Anyone thinking of even the Ivy League who cares about the course should make sure it's worth going there rather than staying here. In some areas the UK is much better. A friend of mine was asked to spend time at an Ivy League uni as a visiting professor in medieval English and turned them down when he found out that he'd be teaching junior year students stuff that is A level in the UK.

Loughborough offers a graphic communication degree with optional study abroad year, including a few US options... would that be worth looking at? www.lboro.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/departments/arts/graphic-communication-illustration/

Secondly, the ivies have need-blind admission for US citizens

But it is not really needs blind in practice. A family on an income above $150k typically would be expected to pay full costs. How on earth are they meant to do this, with tuition at $40k per year, unless they have saved from birth?

We send our DC to UK private schools. I have an alumnus discount at an Ivy League. Yet to send my DC to my Ivy League at $50k+ per year (tuition, living expenses, travel) would be something we simply couldn't do it from income despite having a gross family income well above the 150k threshold.

In some areas the UK is much better. A friend of mine was asked to spend time at an Ivy League uni as a visiting professor in medieval English and turned them down when he found out that he'd be teaching junior year students stuff that is A level in the UK.

Junior year work is certainly not comparable to A level in general. But in any case at least students get to study a wide range of subjects. In the UK a huge problem is early specialisation. Learning A level stuff at 19 or 20 is better than having maths/science knowledge stuck at 16 year old level for ever.

And you might decide that's what you want. If though you have been learning in the UK system and have a passion for your (specialised) subject then you may well be better off in a UK university doing that sort of degree.

So maybe I should say the UK is different - and that might be something to bear in mind.

But it is not really needs blind in practice.
I hear you! I'm not a US citizen myself so I tend to skip over the need-blind info as not going to be relevant for me (although I'll check out the Yale and Harvard tip, in the unlikely event that my kids apply there). But yes, I've heard other people mention the same problem, despite planning for college fees for 18 years…

I read somewhere that MIT is truly internationally needs blind.

my eldest dd attends a very very prestigous performing arts school in NYC.
It was incredibly competitive just to get in and i was abit gulp when worked out cost but we weighed up cost of her places at drama schools in london and it wasn't that much different. Though tbh her school in NYC vs a place at RADA the kudos was about the same. She definitely wanted to be in NYC for the whole living in america thing...3 yrs in she has loved it but she freely admits she would have loved school in london too and she misses being close to her family....ALOT.
The finances were actually better than expected in the end, as her school is very wealthy and has a tiny intake ( 16 on her course) and she got two different scholarships...we definitely got the vibes in the initial stages that is the school want your son or daughter then do not worry about the money....we have needs blind scholarships because at a huge push have afforded it but glad we are not having too.
There are lots of scholarships out there but the leg work is hard going and some are small so you have to apply for lots of different ones with different criteria.
To the OP I would strongly urge your dd to consider very carefully if it is the ' living in states' she wants or if her particular degree/course is going to be better in usa ? as many have said she might find that there are better places to do it nearer to home and travel/camp america/au pairing for a gap yr out htere might give her the american dream without you committing to a lot of money spent on a degree from a nondescript college no one has ever heard of !

I read somewhere that MIT is truly internationally needs blind.

Only in the sense I wrote above. MIT would expect us to remortgage or downside our house to pay for tuition. One could say that this is not unreasonable - UK housing is expensive and releasing equity from relatively modest UK houses would pay a big chunk of fees.

If she wants to do graphic design then how about applying for some sort of work experience etc somewhere like Disney, who do a lot of international work placements etc. not sure what the competition etc is like but could be worth looking in to it to get a year out there?!

I did my Bachelor Degree in the US, but that's going back many years ago! I'd spent a year in high school staying with a family and loved it so much, decided to go back to study at Uni. I was fortunate that a relative had left money to go towards my education, however, it was enough to pay it all.

I don't know if it still applies but at the time, I was able to work part time for two year, so I did so. Then I make a special request for an extension with the authorities and that was granted. I was able to work on campus and that helped a lot as I was able to work over 20 hours. Also, I continued to take credits over the summer so in the end, I managed to do my degree in 3 rather than 4 years. After a year, I did manage to get some sort of scholarship. The oversea office was very supportive and were pivotal to me getting it. I started to study business studies, then changed to Psychology and Sociology. The Uni was ranked in the 30/40s top US unis.

I have no regrets whatsoever. Not only did I have a wonderful time there, I do feel that US higher education is incredible. Having gained a Masters in the UK afterwards, I would say that I learnt much more during my undergraduate studies. I think the attitude of some European establishment towards US education is nothing but snobbery.

Saying all that, I wouldn't consider it for my children because I don't think the funding options I benefited from are as available any longer.

I think experiences many years ago are only partially worthwhile in the financial climate we face today with houses valued as they are. Costs at Yale are $63,000 pa. $40,000 tuition and $23,000 living expenses. Then there are flights home and any additional expenses such as travel and going out. Even $50,000 a year is way out for top university. Expect $70,000 a year for 4 years. Is it worth it for the average family? If you have a spare £250,000 that's great - go for it!

Fwiw, my DD did her first stint at her campus job today! I'm not sure why, but she was told international students couldn't get a job in the first semester (I am not sure if it was only internationals who couldn't work, or if it applied to all freshmen) but she applied for her SSN as soon as she got back in January and it came through last week, I think she is doing 9 hours a week, but could've done more. Not sure if there is a maximum number of hours.

Appreciate that won't make a huge difference to the bill for fees!

Do students need a work visa to work? Or is is covered by the student visa? Work visas are so difficult to get now for the USA because if an American can do the job, they don't issue the visa to an international person. America is becoming a very inward looking society!

DD wasn't covered to work by her student visa. She had to apply for a Social Security Number, which she basically got by taking a letter from her uni confirming that she was indeed a student and her passport to the relevant government building. It all came through within the fortnight, so there wasn't a problem.
DD seems to think that she is only covered to work in uni facilities, so college restaurant, library etc but not at any independent outlet. This isn't a problem because there are lots of campus jobs available.

I think that may be correct about uni jobs only. Even an intern visa is a total nightmare. That was with no pay!

She still has that joy to come, bojo!

Check the art college out that is part of University of Central Florida. It's not the Ivy League but it is half the price with strong ties to Walt Disney.
svad.cah.ucf.edu
The site has tuition fees and living costs spelled out too.