University in America?

[PossumInAPearTree]

Or college I guess.

Dd is interested. I have no clue where to start looking at stuff. She's started looking but is focusing on the nice stuff, good looking campus, etc.

I can't get my head round finances. I can find fees, etc. But as a U.K. Student do you have to pay it all upfront? I'm guessing the English system of getting the course for free upfront and paying it back via future wages won't apply?

A lot of the courses she is looking at in the subject she wants to do talks about been able to do the major in that subject if doing well in prescribed modules in the first year. Is this standard? That you have to do a more general degree in year one and then specialise in year two?

Carl, I did say 'some'.

DD did quite a lot of central London extracurricular, so we perhaps observed more personal statement building than most. And some was silly. (A 10 year old going on a research trip to Africa.) I also suspect that some of these kids were not natural Oxbridge quality, so needed to maximise what they had. From the outside, the College you go to seems to really seems to matter in the US, probably more than in the UK. A bit like Tiffin 11+, some kids started practicing SATS years in advance. (DD who used to watch them, was sometimes surprised how little some knew, so perhaps the practice was needed.)

I accept that the process may not be as tough as educational consultants make out. They are not disinterested parties. And that an increasing number of British schools are now in a position to give good advice.

However I suspect it is tough doing it on your own, with no background. (I have witnessed informed American friends being asked for their take on aspects of the process.) The essays can take time, especially if you are not organised. And I think it probably is wise to think about transferring to a sixth form where the process, including what is needed for a school reference, is understood.

Where we probably agree is on the need to be wary of using consultants. Perhaps including the pp.

One significant disadvantage for state school DC is that the H'so6 haven't really got the resources to spend the considerable extra time it takes to do dual US and UK applications. The best will do their best of course, but it's a huge burden in their context.

One of DS1's best friends from school got a full scholarship to one of the biggest name Ivies, hasn't had to pay a bean and has had a fabulous time. She had no practice with SATs, has no particular connections and although she's always been an immensely gifted all rounder academically, had no extra curriculars whatsoever.

One of my own DC took SATs but the application didn't get very far because I failed to complete the financial form and anyway thought his offer from UCL with a year at UPenn was a much better buy, not that he took the offer up in the end.

I've lived in the US for several years, albeit a while ago, and would say that there's a great deal of mythology that needs debunking about applications to the US, in the same way that there is about 'elite' unis over here.

Cross post.

My DS is going to Uni in the US this year, this is our experience.

He looked at the Unis website to see what the entry requirements, no matter who you are or how many A*s, everyone had to sit the SATs - a bunch of tests sat in 1 day (you're told to never reveal the format or any of the questions or you'll be disqualified from progressing). You can sit the test multiple times, but it costs each time. As DS wasn't remotely interested in an Ivy League school, he just needed to pass and he did pass. I think we paid around £100 for the test. Some American friends pulled a face as he didn't get enough to get into Yale, we asked if their DC did. An embarrassed no was the response.

Next, getting his I20. He has to have this from the Uni to apply for a F1 (student) visa. We had to deposit $4000 into DS financial account at the Uni - $2000 to pay his first semester tuition fees, the rest if we needed incidentals like the $20 cost of FedExing said I20 out to us. We've deposited that $20 because the remaining $2000 will pay the next semester tuition fees. We had to also sign a sponsor form saying we'll be paying the annual costs - tuition fees, accommodation fees etc - which total $12,000. It would be $16,000 if we weren't Latter Day Saints (Mormons). We had to provide wage slips too.
We've applied for a US visa - cost $400 - the forms look daunting, but are pretty standard and we are off to London next week for an interview at the Embassy. So the cost of train tickets, overnight stay (appointment is in the morning) comes to £600.

His course will last 4 years - first year is a foundation year to get everyone up to speed - and the total cost is $24,000 for the tuition fees. His living expenses will be around that too. So we're looking at around $48,000 for a science degree. His medical insurance comes to $3000 for the 4 years.

In comparison, DD2 is at Uni here. It's £4500 a year for her accommodation, £9000 for her course fees and another £4500 living expenses. £18,000 a year. Her course is only 3 years £54,000 in total.
I'm sure cost wise to us would be the same if we weren't LDS regarding our sons degree, but it's no where near the $70,000 a YEAR we were told by well meaning friends.

My ex-husband is american and he went to Rice, then Princeton and later to Columbia. He is STILL paying for it in his late 40's.

I went to a UK University but my degree included a full academic year (at no extra charge- I even got money for flights) in the US (and it was amazing!). Lots of courses have exchanges/ study abroad options. Possibly worth looking into something like that?

we looked at this for one of our DC mainly because they wanted to go there. Fulbright and the open days were very useful. what I think made the decision not to go in the end was that there was no real advantage in doing it. the course wouldn't have been different enough to make it worthwhile. the distance means you cant just get home for weekends or special occasions and wont get family visits. the shared uni accommodation - something we just aren't used to.

I think your dd is in love with the idea of it. perhaps pick a course with a year out or work abroad in a gap year first.

unless the course really is that special, it wouldn't really be something we would consider.

She's clearly got no idea, bless her. Tell her to forget pictures of dorms, and to go away and find an actual course in graphic design and a college, along with full details of application process and costs. That will keep her busy for a bit.

I have to say that unless you are looking at science or business type degrees at the top universities then it is not worth it.

We were advised that if you were looking at top level science, it was far better to do an undergraduate degree in the UK and then go to somewhere like MIT for post grad.

bloody hell, $22k a semester is not typical. How do you think American kids afford college?

Cal State Fullerton, $14k per year.

Knoxville TN, $15k/yr.

There are a wide variety of degree issuing establishments in the US with similarly varying fees. However, DD took the approach that the institution had to have a 'known' reputation here too should she return to the UK to find employment. She had a firm offer from a well regarded university in the UK to weigh up the US options. She also took soundings from our friends working in senior positions across a number of industries in the UK as to how the various US offers she had were considered in the UK.

Can I make a suggestion to have a look at Canadian universities (U of T, UBC, McGill, Queens, etc)? I grew up in the States but DF encouraged me to look further afield for my undergraduate Australia so I did a UCAS app but ended up going North of the border to Canada. It was awesome - world class esucation for a fraction of the price of any Uni I had applied to in the States. Granted the exchange rate was a little different 17 (eek!) years ago but that's something else to consider - what you pay in the first year could be very different to what you pay in the fourth year depending on exchange rates!
Other tips: as others have said there are loads of scholarships around, though many limited to US citizens (so I didn't qualify for any) but also for sports or arts which you might have more luck with. States Unis are generally cheaper, good ones include ones in New York (SUNY), Massachusetts (UMASS) and California (UC) amongst others.
I think cost is a major barrier and always struggle to bite my tongue when I hear UK students complain about the cost of Uni - I don't know a single friend from high school in the States who won't have crippling student debts for the rest of their lives.

Sorry just thinking of other things that your DD might want to consider;
-Living in dorms isn't all it's cracked up to be. You usually have a room mate and pay through the nose for canteen food. No independent living, I know learning to pay bills/do my groceries/ sort my own laundry/ etc was a major learning curve that I had at age 18, not after graduating at age 22. Don't get me wrong, I had a great first year in halls but then loved moving into a flat for the next 3 years and taking responsibility for myself.

• Drinking age in the States is 21 and Unis get pretty strict about this.
• Holidays are different to what her friends in the UK will have.

I like the suggestions of either Camp America or doing a semester abroad. I did both (well I worked at our local day camp and spent a semester of Uni in Kenya) and they were both great experiences that added to my CV.

bloody hell, $22k a semester is not typical. How do you think American kids afford college?

Cal State Fullerton, $14k per year.

Knoxville TN, $15k/yr.

But frankly, why would you go to either of those universities if you're a UK citizen with some of the best universities in the world available to you?

OK, if you're aiming for Edge Hill or De Montfort or Preston Poly, then many US colleges might be cheaper. But you also need to be prepared for the big difference between a US college education, and a UK university education.

As others have said, look for a UK course at the best university A Levels will allow, with a Year Abroad/Study Abroad option.

THEN, at Open Days, ask about the specific US colleges with which the Department has exchange agreements. Check those are high quality. You can do this via the QS World University rankings, if you like league tables.

I think cost is a major barrier and always struggle to bite my tongue when I hear UK students complain about the cost of Uni - I don't know a single friend from high school in the States who won't have crippling student debts for the rest of their lives.

Indeed. £9k a year is an international bargain for a high quality degree at a high quality university.

People like me don't go to the world's best universities*.
Not sure OP said her DD was in that league, either.

*Actually, I tell a lie, I did go to one of them.. but only one yr. I was part of the 25% dropout rate. Had in-state fees that made it realistic. I never could have been accepted to Ivy League, though. My cousins kids are going into the Army for 8 yrs so they can go to college afterwards.

tbf, Unis charge these numbers because they can.

A number of kids from our local school have gone on sports scholarships however they compete for Britain/England in their sport.

lljkk I think the difference might be if you are located in the US? And expecting to live & work there. Then employers etc will know more about the smaller, or less elite, or non-Ivy League colleges.

But here in the UK, they will mean very little. If the OP's DD intends to return to the UK.

I suspect the DD has been watching too many teen college movies, and has an odd or fantasy notion of the USA.

The Universities people have heard of are at least $22,000 per semester! Probably more now! I am interested that someone above quotes tuition fees as $2,000 per semester. I guess if your are Latter Day Saints, you get a chance to go at a much reduced fee, but most will not qualify for any scholarships that are worth anything, unless it is for sport. After attending a Fulbright seminar I looked through hundreds of possibilities for financial help. We qualified for a big fat 0.

Also, the OP's DD wanted Graphic Design. There will not be SATS for that! Neither will there be opportunities at Yale and Harvard, one suspects! You have to produce a portfolio for these courses. The same as you do here. It will be very difficult to find needs blind for this type of course.

My DD was offered a scholarship of $6,600 pa on the quality of her work and our financial situation, which was obviously far too healthy. This was not much of a dent in the cost of the course. If you want to study in the USA, then choice of college is really important. No-one here gives much credit for studying at somewhere they have never heard of. We also have high standards of Art education in our universities and colleges . The rest of the world is in our Art Colleges! It is great to travel and study, but the USA undergrad route is very expensive for Arts students! Also, I suspect it conveys no benefit in the jobs market at all.

Also, do not forget that Arts students will pay for materials and production costs. It is Very Expensive and it is not just a case of rocking up to seminars and lectures.

DS has in his head that he would really really like to go to MIT. I have in my head that I would really really like him to do undergrad over here and then if he still wants to try for MIT to apply for postgrad. He's only 14 so I have a couple of years to try to dissuade him before I have to start to find the local SAT centre etc.

Uni in the USA is very expensive as has already been pointed out. US students pay lower fees for staying "in state" but overseas students pay full whack.

Scholarships are available on sites like www.scholarships.com. I actually run a non profit that awards scholarships (among others) for British students coming to study in Texas (where I live). Scholarships sound great but bear in mind that we are looking at financially underprivileged students and that most students who rely on scholarships probably have 8 to 10 at any one time - some have more than a dozen. Furthermore, they may only pay once or for part of one semester. Ours do this, it's a one off lump sum that is paid directly to the college for tuition fees. Students can apply year on year but again, they start from scratch each year.

Bear in mind that in many cases students with IB can skip the freshman (first) year of a US college course....

Chiquita, I live 5 blocks from Rice Uni - it's an amazing college and so beautiful too. It's on a par with Harvard and prices to match - $100k for an MBA!

In a previous life I worked for a Scottish uni that was very hot on sandwich courses (with a period of work in year 3 out of 4). We sent 50 students a year to work in the USA, mostly hospitality and tourism, but also marketing etc. There were also plenty of semester / study in the US options too. This might be a criteria for your daughter as she looks at UK unis.

Btw, telling a bunch of under 21 second year students that if they were even caught holding a bottle of beer for a friend while on placement in the US, their visa would be revoked and may jeopardize future US visa applications was fun!

Graphic design may present a problem for a sandwich year in the USA.

Bradley Yes I know I went there once when we were visiting his family in Houston. Imagine how much it cost him to later go to Princeton and then get a PHD from Columbia...... The english complain (I am foreign too) but they do not know how good/cheap they have it.

I think the desire to go to a university in the USA is a bit of a snowball effect. Where my DDs went to school, there were a couple of sports scholarships in the USA and girls from Saudi Arabia and a few wealthy Chinese who went. No-one who was really clever looked beyond these shores. Things have changed and schools put the fact students have gone to the USA in their prospectuses. They talk about staff dedicated to these applications. It is seen as prestigious. No one ever says what the cost is! It is made to look easy and students are told how wealthy the American universities are and believe getting a scholarship (or a few of them) is easy. It is not.