Take a gap year and reapply to Oxbridge?

[tyngedyriaith]

DD has been rejected from Cambridge. People with far worse grades have gotten in. She's disappointed. She mentioned retrying next year if she exceeds the standard offer?

Is it worth it considering Welsh fees are going up next year?

mean more likely to be able afford to fund a Masters or MPhil (further income for the university) with a higher chance of applying to Oxbridge for this if they have not been there as an undergraduate

Very interesting sendsummer and makes perfect sense.

Yes, send several people have mentioned this as a possibility, and it could well be that this is the thinking, and for STEM subjects would be incredibly worthwhile I would think.

However, in DS's case he wants to do Classics, a subject he loves, but I'm not sure that it would be worth the time and and money to do a postgrad degree - unless he suddenly decides he wants an academic career, which he shows no sign of wanting at the moment.

The undergraduate experience is very different from the graduate experience though Bobo.

I'm sure it is, as it is at any university.

Also, what conditions would you expect beyond getting a First (and being able to pay)?!

Well yes, just as it is anywhere I'm sure but so many people say to those not getting an offer for undergrad well never mind, just go and get a First somewhere else and then go to do postgrad but it isn't the same at all.

Some friends DCs had to get no lower than a 2.1 in every module as well as getting a First.

MrsBernardBlack I am in no position to comment on what your DS will choose to do or what is best for him. However from the Oxbridge university POV it does not matter if only a proportion of students with first class honours from other universities apply for a Masters / MPhil since places are relatively few. Even if numbers are expanded (which is a possibility) there will be a surplus of very good candidates.

It's not the same but it's very valuable for some career paths.

goodbyestranger I agree of course that the undergraduate experience is different but those who are rejected won't be choosing between undergraduate or postgraduate experience but rather whether, if good enough (and have the economic means) to go for postgraduate.

Yes, very valuable - agreed.

Also Goodbyestranger for somebody serious about their subject, the postgraduate experience is actually more relevant for making the most of the Oxbridge research calibre.

Yes sendsummer but it's a shame for people to plough very large sums of money and hopes too into the postgrad as a way of compensating for not going at undergrad level. If it's purely hard nosed and based on the economics of employability then that's different of course.

Crosspost sendsummer. Yes completely agree but I just see so often the advice given to go for postgrad instead and no doubt people are trying to cheer up disappointed applicants in Y13 but it's best to not go with false hopes of replicating the social side at undergrad, because it's so different.

I don't disagree plus even if being hard nosed there may be better specialised postgraduate courses at other universities.
My previous posts (apart from the last) was not taking the position that this tactic was necessarily desirable for individual students.
The win win is from Oxbridge's POV.

for somebody serious about their subject, the postgraduate experience is actually more relevant for making the most of the Oxbridge research calibre.

I disagree with this. The UK is fortunate to have many world leading research terms (at least until we Brexit...), spread across many universities. Oxbridge research calibre simply isn't higher than in many other departments around the country. This is reflected in the REF scores, research grant distribution etc.

At the same time it is true that Oxbridge on the whole has "first pick" of undergraduates and that the undergraduates at Oxbridge are a bit above the leading undergraduate competitors to Oxbridge. So the undergraduate educational level is generally a bit better at Oxbridge than elsewhere.

user you may well be one of these world class researchers at another university. If you are you will be aware that for most universities the density of 'world class researchers is not the same compared to Oxbridge, otherwise the research impact of all those places would be near comparable (not withstanding the bias in funding towards Oxbridge from certain sources).

send I'm not quite so deluded as to imagine that Oxbridge tailor their admissions criteria to suit my DS , my point was really that doing a post grad degree is of limited use in many subjects, so I'm not that convinced that it is viewed as a sort of consolation prize by the admissions tutors who are interviewing prospective undergraduates.

There is no doubt that there are moves to widen access at all levels of the career ladder, which is good and I have no problem with that, but in the end they can actually end up cancelling each other out unintentionally.

I always find the suggestion of applying for a Masters an odd one too, MrsB.

Aside from the fact that the experience is very different, I don't think an Oxbridge Masters relates to a Masters from other places the same way the undergrad degree does. This might be skewed to my field. But, in virtually all subjects I know of, an Oxbridge undergrad degree will look great on your CV, will be very rigorous to do, and will be distinctive in that you'll be taught in small numbers in a very specific way. Arguably, the skills you gain from being taught this way are also distinctive, and part of the reason the degree is valued.

Oxbridge Masters do look very good on a CV, but there's more variation at that level. Masters courses aren't always so different from those elsewhere. You might find you're taught in larger groups than at other universities, which could be perfectly appropriate, but isn't like the undergrad experience. The whole structure of teaching won't give you such a distinctive experience.

MrsBernardBlack no indeed, not a consolation prize for the individual rejected student since there is no guarantee of that student's potential or wishes at the end of their degree.
I am obviously being too obtuse so better stop trying to explain.

LRD you are right about mainly taught Masters, but I was thinking more of research Masters / MPhil.

Fair point, though research MPhils don't really exist at Oxbridge in my subject, and that's true of quite a few.

If you are after a distinctive educational experience (and, personally, I think that young people and their parents really should prioritise this when composing their path through education), a change of institution and/or country and/or subject at every step of the way is worth considering very closely. Employers with the most lucrative graduate jobs greatly value candidates with multiple perspectives.

If MrsBernardBlack's data point is accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't) and Eton got 20 Oxbridge offers this cycle when it usually gets around 70, might this not be attributable to a backlash against Eton by Oxbridge in retaliation for the looming disaster of Brexit upon UK universities? Why, after all, should Oxbridge want to educate Etonians if old Etonians are then going to destroy the university sector?

That's absurd. Don't be so daft.