Take a gap year and reapply to Oxbridge?

[tyngedyriaith]

DD has been rejected from Cambridge. People with far worse grades have gotten in. She's disappointed. She mentioned retrying next year if she exceeds the standard offer?

Is it worth it considering Welsh fees are going up next year?

tropical, the OP hasn't even mentioned which subject it is. And unless Oxford have really changed in the past two years, they don't set hard-and-fast rules about numbers of students per subject year on year. They may have happened to take four students per college in one particular year, but generalising from that is not very helpful.

tyn - good luck to her and to you. She might be fine, anyway!

It is always a gamble. It doesn't matter whether a college takes four, six or eight students for a subject - they will be interviewing at least half as many more for it. Last year ds at Oxford was one of 40 interviewed for 7 places. Bad odds! And even the most exceptional candidate can crash and burn in interview or, even more infuriating, come across as a bit "meh".

However, echo what previous poster said about no need to do anything now. Accept another offer but, if really fancy another shot at Oxbridge, work like a galley slave and ace the A Levels. Then make the decision about whether to go to another university or go for it again. Also second view that a gap year is not to be wasted. I don't think you need a stellar job (although they need some job!) , but at least spend the time doing something you like, even if that is (like ds) reading lots of whatever you like/learning to drive.

Agree with Rhoda.

"You don't need to make this decision now. Your dd can accept whichever non oxbridge offer she prefers and work hard for a level. She can assume she is going to uni in 17/18 while at the same time coming up with a high level plan of how she would spend a gap year if she had one."

Also agree with this. If she gets good grades, she will get in somewhere good on a second application.

Just to add that in my case there was a world of difference between the interviewee who applied in the upper sixth and the one who applied a year later.

I spent September to December of my gap year working a bit and preparing my Cambridge application and reading every history book I could get my hands on. I knew I had good A levels and I was far more confident second time round. Not to mention far more grown up.

Think you are being a bit selfish - it;s her life and her decision. If she has a gap year she will have to get a job and pay you rent or go and do some voluntary work where she can live rent free. You dont want her to say in the future that you stopped her from going to Cambridge.

I feel I ought to belatedly explain the two year approach.

You are a credible Oxbridge candidate, at least 2A*s in your predictions, probably more.

You want to go to a top five University. (I may arouse more controversy here, but feedback is that people with say A* in further maths who opt for course content rather than the course reputation, can find themselves understretched.)

Top five Universities in popular subjects can be very oversubscribed. They are often the courses that appeal to strong international or European students, plus University fees seem to have encouraged students towards quasi-vocational degrees (engineering, economics, law, medicine, computer science, maths and science).

Competition then can be tough, and it is perfectly possible, even with a 4A* prediction, to be rejected not just by Oxbridge, but by places like Warwick and UCL. (I know because it happened to DS!)

If you get the grades in the summer, there is a decision to be made. Either you take the course you firmed, or if it does not really appeal, you apply again, this time with achieved results, a stronger PS buoyed by things you did over the summer, and and a year's extra maturity which should help your interview technique.

Universities have to treat all home/EU candidates equally so I assume if you have a stronger application, you stand a better chance. (Maths may be different in that not doing maths for a year might make you a weaker candidate - I don't know.)

The thing to watch for is rejecting a good second choice in order to have a second go at Oxbridge. Anecdotally, and based on very small samples, the Durhams, LSEs etc can read this as not being that interested in their course. It is not unknown for very confident candidates to only try for Oxbridge in the first cycle, leaving other choices to be fall backs for a second attempt.

Leave the decision till results day, and then, if the results are really good, have a hard think about the extent to which you might regret not having a second attempt at Oxbridge. In short how much better FOR YOU is the Oxbridge course compared with the one you have firmed.

Gap years and a second application can be good things in themselves. DD has been surprised at how often adults have shared their fond memories of ski seasons and Camp America, and so far she is having a great time whilst looking forward to a summer in upstate New York, whilst picking up a range of softer skills which will be useful in any future career. With every chance she will appreciate University more when she finally get there.

Whilst we do know several kids who have got Oxbridge on reapplication, we also know one prospective student, A* in everything, applying for a very popular course, who got feedback along the lines of that he had been an excellent candidate, but so too were the other eleven they had interviewed, and they could only take four. He revisited his firm after his results and decided he wanted to try Oxbridge again. He did not get in, but by the time he came to decide which offer to accept, his priorities and interests had changed and he is now very happy in London (which he had not applied to first time round) and on a slightly different course. Plus had a great year off.

Universities have to treat all home/EU candidates equally so I assume if you have a stronger application, you stand a better chance.

Yes ... and you could genuinely be a stronger candidate (rather than having a stronger application, which is slightly different) after a year. But they would put the application in context of you having done an extra year. Treating all candidates equally doesn't mean ignoring the fact someone had another year to prepare (if that's what they did).

I think if you are really gutted by an Oxbridge rejection, it may not be a good idea to put yourself through the mill again. The odds second time around are not hugely better, even for candidates with exceptional grades. I made ds look at the statistics. Post- A Level applicants are certainly not a shoe-in.

I agree with Bumpsadaisie in that if you have grown and "improved" over the year, then have another go, but I think you'd be on a hiding to nothing if you were trying with the same profile as you had the previous year.

I know we are supposed to ape Robert the Bruce and the spider thing, but if you think your dc is fragile and would be crushed by a second rejection, think very carefully before reapplying.

Sorry LRD, I meant what you said. That the extra year meant you were a stronger applicant. English was never my subject, as is probably pretty obvious.

They change a lot in their late teenage years. DS was a credible applicant when he applied, but did not get a place. He was happy with what he was offered so went there instead. He is now applying for a Masters degree and three years later is more confident (though obviously not 100%) of gaining an Oxbridge place, even though the competition may well be as intense, probably because he is now better able to demonstrate his deep interest in his subject and his ability to pursue this interest. The difference is that should he be offered a place, he won't automatically take it "because it is Oxbridge" but sit down and go carefully through course content, seek advice and make a decision based on which course suits him best.

FWIW he has no regrets about not being accepted first time round, but he did gain a place on a course which enjoys a similar reputation. I think he may have regretted had he accepted a course not ranked in the top five, as he probably would not have had the same access to challenging technical/quantitative courses, and as a result doors to well regarded Masters courses would not be as open.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as pedantic. I was just trying to say something, probably a bit too wordily.

Don't worry. I think the surprise can be at just how competitive some courses are. It is very easy for a good applicant to be squeezed out simply because there are so many good applicants and so small things on the day can make all the difference.

And not just Oxbridge. So this cycle alone we know an economics re-applicant and a law re-applicant who both got Oxbridge this time round, having received multiple rejections last. And getting Oxbridge does not mean you get everywhere else. They will all be acting independently, so using slightly different criteria.

I suspect that private school kids are more willing to re-apply as they get a better "after-sales" service from their schools. And that this seventh term support is one of the reasons why privately educated kids are so over-represented at Oxbridge. My personal view is that Oxbridge is not the be-all and end-all. Looking at it another way, DCs friends at Oxbridge do not seem noticeably happier than those elsewhere. Some are very happy, some are not (for a range of reasons), which is the same for those who went to Exeter, London, York or wherever. One very important element is to be on a course that you find interesting, challenging and supportive, and in a place you like. But you don't need to go to Oxbridge to achieve that.

You're right to suspect that about the very top maths courses, needmore, they discourage gap years and if one is taken they will want to see how maths skills have been (and will be) maintained. Offers deferred for a year seem to be very rare. None were made at Oxford this year and very few were applied for.

My DS has also been rejected for Cambridge. He had applied to do engineering. He has been offered places at the other 4 universities he has applied. I don't really know much about the process but would it be possible to take a place at another university in September and then reapply to Cambridge for the following year?

I dont think so as it would count as having started a degree.

On Cambridge website it says only in very exceptional circumstances would an application be accepted from a student at another university, and then the director of studies there would have to back up reason.

I'm sure it wouldn't be very desirable for a student or their university to be focusing on going somewhere else during the first term.

Regarding gap year/maths/Cambridge - page 6 of this doc shows that many Cambridge colleges do not discourage a gap year for math applicants.

www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate-admissions/admissionsguide.pdf

In fact none discourage outright and although some discourage unless the student is doing something useful, there are some that encourage a gap year, especially if the student will do something useful.

Just wanted to point out the info from the horse's mouth!

I think oxbridge try to seem as inclusive as they can. They certainly don't want to seem to exclude anyone. I would be interested in how many gap year students they take, in reality.

seen not seem!

I had assumed that DS's rejection was down to him having not done enough reading, or having come over as too confident in the interviews, but I have just learned that DS's school (Eton) has had a catastrophic year for Oxbridge offers - 20 instead of around 70.

I will be interested to see what the school will suggest regarding reapplication for next year.

Could also be a casualty of ongoing attempts to level the playing field? It sounds upsetting, I know, but when you think they're trying hard to get more students in who've not had such a privileged background, those places have to come from somewhere.

These things seem to go in waves. Merchant Taylor's also had a bad year and last year was a bloodbath for Westminster. My DS's year at UCS had 4 who missed their Oxford offers and the following year, they got 8 offers instead of the usual 16-20.
Has Eton taken its foot off the Oxbridge peddle in favour of American unis? Was it some colleges and not others? DD has 3 Etonians in her year at college ( all delightful much to her surprise). It is , however, one of the ones that flat refuses to prioritise contextual data.

Those figures are interesting horsemadmom. The school has certainly been having more success over the pond recently, but I'm sure there's no way they would compromise their Oxbridge candidates - they aren't exactly short of resources .

Obviously the top independents will lose out as limited places are shared out more fairly, but I was surprised at the big drop in numbers. If it had been 70 to 50 I would have found that more explicable. The new Head must be a bit dismayed that this has happened so soon after he took over.

Of course, Eton do try and help more students from the state sector to gain Oxbridge places, so maybe overall their success rate doesn't look so bad.

Interesting about Eton and the dramatic fall in Oxbridge offers, MrsBernardBlack.

I just wanted to reiterate a point NeedMoreSleep made earlier in the thread and give our experience of applying for Masters degrees. My DSS1 read Economics at Bristol and had no difficulty securing an offer at Cambridge for an MPhil when he applied during the third year of his degree. The only condition was for him to get a First. In the event, he decided not to take up his place in 2016 but to have a gap year doing internships in the city instead, and he is now due to go to Cambridge in 2017. We have several friends whose DC have done further degrees at Cambridge not having done Oxbridge undergraduate degrees and they have all (a) had a great time and (b) got great jobs / funded PhDs afterwards.

Let me outline a hypothetical situation for Oxbridge admissions possibly not so hypothetical The outstanding candidates (very bright and dedicated) get a place whatever school they come from. Enough but not too many overseas students get selected. That leaves a pool of worthy candidates with brownie points for attracting more comprehensive pupils and certain ethnic minorities. The risk of a slight or not so slight admissions bias with regards missing out on talented future academics is actually minimal since these have a high chance of re-applying to Oxbridge at some point in their postgraduate career when they are most able to contribute to the Oxbridge research.
Also in this hypothetical situation, private school students are more likely to be able afford to fund a Masters or MPhil (further income for the university) with a higher chance of applying to Oxbridge for this if they have been there as an undergraduate.
It's a win win situation