Oxbridge - how best to go about this?

[GoodyGoodyGumdrops]

Ds (Y11 at a decent comprehensive) has his sights set on Oxbridge.

How best to support him?

How best to maximise his chances?

Yes only three essays a term, rather than the weekly tutorial, but detailed individual comment/feedback on each.

As you get from all of your 16 or so Oxford tutorials each term. And at the end of each term your various tutors give a report to your main college tutor (surely this can't only be at mine and dd's colleges?).

Oxbridge in contrast was more sink or swim.

Ime there's actually loads of support available if you want it and engage.

Kr1stina you said many students struggle or fail. Students who fail can't stay on, if they fail their first exams twice. Since very few have to leave under those circumstances I think your premise is wrong. You were the one who suggested that many Oxbridge students struggle or fail; I merely responded. Lots of threads go off topic, it's not a big deal if my responding to your point doesn't directly help OP. It might anyhow, obliquely, in that your suggestion that many students can't cope is not an incentive to encourage a DC to try for Oxbridge!

I wonder if the low female percentage of Cambridge mathematicians is to do with the risk-taking thing - being put off gambling on STEP?
(Oxford has 30% women.)

Yes. It's the same in the 11+: girls do far less well in multiple choice, leaving answers blank rather than getting it wrong whereas boys wing it far more often. Not sure if that continues up through tests like the BMAT?

Kr1stina I think that students struggle with the transition of less hand holding during studies and less prescriptive directions or questions. They also find difficulties in making their own notes during lectures rather than being given handouts. In fact there are a myriad of aspects that students find harder initially at university including different styles of lecturers. Some universities continue teaching more akin to schools and therefore may make it easier for students but is that doing them any favours in the long term?
As I say I am not excusing poor lecturing or tutors or lack of feedback. I do think that all students who are capable (and Oxbridge students should be) have to individually step up to the transition to get the most out of that sort of degree. There is a lot of material out there to help university study skills including from generic department handbooks.

slight diversion - but my DD is quite interested in Oxford. Don't know anyone who went there. How would you go about choosing a college to give you a chance? lots to choose for her subject - MFL and History.

Have heard anecdotally that it makes no matter what college you choose- others say but some really over subscribed - so for a realistic chance of choice - how do you find out?

Do tell me about colleges you went to and their atmosphere!

All the colleges are oversubscribed. It really doesn't make a difference which you apply to. The Oxford website has info on which offer History and MFL (do check as not all offer that joint school). Your DD can make an open application if she can't decide which college to go for but the system works as follows...
DD applies to college A. College A decides to interview her (or not). After interview with College A and most likely a second interview with another college (call it College B), the academic department meets (all colleges in one room with a spreadsheet projected on the wall with all candidates and their academic info and interview scores). Your DD might get an immediate offer from College A or might get an offer from College B. Or, A and B might have filled their places with other candidates who scored higher on interview but still think DD did well enough for a place and release her for consideration to other colleges. The other colleges in the room who have not filled their places will look at DD's info and decide if they can offer or not. Some candidates get Open Offers which mean that they are given places of other candidates who did not make their offers in August- these Open Offers are sponsored by a particular college which will take the candidate if no other slot comes up. Some colleges tend to get fewer candidates and are 'import' colleges- i.e. they take fewer of the candidates who directly apply to them and chose out of the ones in the pool. Some colleges 'export'- i.e. they have too many strong applicants every year so send many off to other colleges.
All this stuff is on the uni website including stats for how many apply, are accepted, are exported, imported, come from state schools etc.It is a very transparent process.
DD should go to Open Day and chose a college she likes. Good luck!

My Ds is in the first year of maths at Cambridge.Applying to an unpopular college helps.
GCSE grades were not really historically important for Cambridge.Although I dodn't know how this will change with not everyone doing AS levels. Some good mathematicians are only really good at maths. DS offer was 3xA* + grade 1 in step 2 & 3

All these statistics are available for Oxford how many got into their first choice college etc, so have a poke around.

Dd chose her college from its picture in the prospectus I chose mine on location mostly. Most people do end up loving their college, and find it hard to imagine life anywhere else.

DH chose his because FIL went there. DD narrowed her list to 2 colleges based on advice from school and just clicked with the tutor at one of them on the Open Day. She's really happy there so, good result.

DD1 chose her college on the twin basis that it had a strong reputation for her subject (law) and was endowed and set up by a widower living in a dower house a few hundred yards from our own.

Not that ours is a dower house. Just a house. Well, a small cottage really.

That should read widow, not widower - in need of my reading glasses!

Applying to an unpopular college helps

the cambridge application stats suggest that this may not be the case.

As a 2016 example.

Popular College :

Trinity - 21.7% offer rate, but rising to 29.7% once its applicants selected by other colleges from the winter pool are added

Less Popular College

Girton - 23.2% offer rate, and only rises to 24.5% once pool taken into account. So 5% less than Trinity

May be different at Oxford colleges of course.

Separately DS1 chose his college because he liked the architecture , not that he is reading for a degree in a subject remotely related to architecture

One stat that might help, angeldelightedme, is the one where MFL applicants to Oxford are far more likely to be offered a place than History applicants. The University produces statistics on the percentage of each subject's applicants who are given places and due to MFL students being in short supply, MFL has a better chance of success.

Even when applying for MFL, applicants have to submit an essay with the application and, personally I think it is better to avoid the really big name colleges and go for one you like the look of out of the rest. You can have a brief look round any college when it is open and you could not possibly do all of them on an open day. Go for a weekend and have a good look around the city.

Joint schools applicants are often asked if they would take an offer for just one subject- usually the MFL.
I hate the idea of applicants being warned off the 'big name' colleges. This is precisely why some don't get enough state school applicants.. DD is at one of the 'big name' ones and it really is a problem that some applicants are being erroneously steered away.
Just apply where DD wants to go.

public.tableau.com/views/UoO_UG_Admissions2/AcceptanceRate?%3Aembed=y&%3Adisplay_count=yes&%3AshowTabs=y&%3AshowVizHome=no
Hope this link helps

Agree with horsemadmom. Any reason for applying to any college will do provided it's not for the purpose of trying to game it. You've got to be happy with the college (and subject) you're at since you're going to spend at least three years there (and studying it) and since the probability of improving your chances are remarkably slim, it's probably not worth any compromise. My DC haven't really agonized over college choice, they've simply picked one they fancy with the caveat that it doesn't and hasn't contained a sibling. What they haven't done is to pore over admissions statistics to try to be clever. These things very often backfire, from what I can tell.

I do think potential students get a feel for where they fit in. Therefore of course they should apply where they want to, but sometimes they feel more at home at college A rather then College B. Quite often those interviewing work across several colleges so where you would like to live and what the college feels like to the applicant is valid.

If you are very good at MFL then statistically it is easier to get in rather than be asked if you would drop History when you have had the interviews and done all the prep. If you are willing to go through that scenario, do joint. Students should apply for what they like but you need to be excellent at both. It is perfectly reasonable for an able MFL student to be advised to go for MFL. Why wouldn't you? It just depends on how you feel about History. If that is the love of your life, go for it. It is worth knowing that that MFL is "easier" to get into if you are undecided.

And that advice also gets more state pupils into Oxford too!!! MFL is becoming the province of private schools at Oxford and elsewhere.

My Ds is in the first year of maths at Cambridge.Applying to an unpopular college helps.

No, it doesn't. Maths is a subject where applicants are benchmarked by very objective criteria - performance in AS, performance in STEP, performance in interview/pre-interview questions. Weaker colleges don't take weak candidates who applied directly rather than wait for pooled candidates from Trinity.

You've lost me on being asked to drop a subject. Why?

On STATs I've looked at that are pretty hard for me to work out - very few students are accepted with MFL and History. Is this because History say - we prefer wholly committed students as we have too many numbers?

A teacher in a local school advised joint subjects are hard to get into. Is this true?

However, my DD particularly wants a joint honours - loves the sound and feel of Durham who only do MFL as a joint subject - maybe two languages / English? History as far as we make out.

She is a strong applicant. Feels she should look around Oxford and try for it - but wants joint.

Can you enlighten as to why there seem to be few MFL and History applicants and successful applicants at Oxford according to stats?

I am not sure if you are addressing me, violets.

History often requires higher grades of A levels than MFL. At Oxford and at a few other universities they will want AAA for MFL. The other issue is the number of applicants for History are far greater than those for MFL. This makes it, statistically, more challenging to get a place. Less students take MFL at A level. Even fewer take 2 MFL at A level. Also with MFL you can sometimes add another MFL at university if you do not currently study it. This makes it joint honours.

Durham do separate languages! They do French Studies, German Studies, Hispanic Studies and so on. They also do European MFL and History. Have a look at the MFL Dept on their web site for undergraduate courses.

If she is a very strong candidate, she should apply for what she actually wants to study. All I am saying is that less people apply for MFL so there is a higher chance of being accepted but for brilliant people this does not matter of course. They will get a place anyway.

English is not considered a MFL at university and is not part of an MFL Dept. You can often combine it with a language and that will be competitive too. However, as language departments really want strong candidates, they like people who apply for joint honours including a language, so adding in a language is a really good thing.

There are few successful applicants because History is ultra competitive. The MFL less so. French and Italian for example is a way higher acceptance rate. Joint subjects are not harder to get into if you choose the right subjects.

Most top level universities are competitive. From the stats, some courses at Oxford take 1:10 applicants. This means 9:10 are unsuccessful. If you want to maximise your chances of going, look at a subject that is statistically easier. However if you really must do a very competitive subject, then the chance of failure to get in is higher. Nothing is nailed on for anyone though but a really good personal statement is a good starting point.