Oxbridge - how best to go about this?

[GoodyGoodyGumdrops]

Ds (Y11 at a decent comprehensive) has his sights set on Oxbridge.

How best to support him?

How best to maximise his chances?

Kr1stina, can you link to the precise 7 criteria?
I am thinking of a friend of DS, by the way, a lad from a family where nobody ever went to Uni etc. Very bright lad I would like to encourage to aim high, if I can.

I cant find the information online, I think because it won't go back up until the applications open, maybe in mid January?

From memory , they are things like

First in family to go to further education
Living in most deprived postcodes
Attending school which sends few pupils to university
Care experienced
Having very good grades in GCSE ( can't remember what exactly )
Studying the correct A levels for the course they want to do
Receiving free school meals or EMA
Attending state school

It tough to get in if you don't fulfill most of these, as they are massively over subscribed . But it's quite easy to apply, the application form is all factual and is completed online. They needs a school reference, also done online.

Definetly worth applying, it's a fantastic programme. Good luck to him

My one piece of advice is check the course and options. A few people get all excited about oxbridge and getting in but don't think about what they will actually do for 3/4 years, and then hate it. Also is the collegiate system for you? Look at the college entrance stats. Back in my day my course had a 50% acceptance rate at my college!

One of my y13 students has an offer from Cambridge, he only got 2 or 3 A* at GCSE but excelled in his AS exams and is very passionate about the subject.

Cambridge offer one day masterclasses for y12s. They're free for disadvantaged students and only £20 for other students; and it's first come first served as far as I'm aware. There aren't any for maths/engineering on the website so far but I know that last year they added more subjects later on.

Although it's great for him to think about his options in y11, he won't have to submit his application until October of y13, so he still has almost 2 years to make up his mind. I know a few students who changed their minds about what they wanted to study once they were in sixth form and were studying subjects in more depth.

thanks, Kr1stina. The lad I'm thinking of hasn't been in care and attends a school with good results (parents are in debt to pay for the bus fares to get him & siblings there), so only ticks some of the boxes. I wonder which postcode resolution is used.... he's in a family of 6 in a 3 bed house living on a council estate & parents tick vulnerable boxes, but the area where they live as a whole is in the middle deprivation quintile, so probably not ticking enough of the right boxes. I guess it's good (or :( , not sure which!) the programmes find plenty kids that tick all the boxes. I will see if I can find a way to encourage him in other ways.

Sorry I can't remember thw postcode criteria , I think it was the most deprived 25%.

You or he can register with the Sutton trust to be notified when the programme opens next month.

This is interesting:

www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/special/20110406/multiple-regression-study.pdf

It seems that school background is a poor predictor for future performance, as is BMAT (for medicine), but STEP is a good one.

Lljkk,
My dd did not get a place for the Sutton trust summer school at Cambridge, she was however offered some master classes, 2 subject related days in July. A little bit of my heart sank, 2 lots of return rail fares and trying to arrange accommodation with nearest friend so she could get there in time for an early start. I was therefore pleasantly surprised when they sent her both train tickets and offered free overnight accommodation.

Ta 4 info. :)

Following this thread with interest as DS Year 12 is interested in studying Maths and Physics at Cambridge. We have just started to look at the Summer Schools and Masterclasses.
We live in SW England so not easy to get to Cambridge for a day.

It seems that school background is a poor predictor for future performance, as is BMAT (for medicine), but STEP is a good one.

There are also studies indicating that the tripos papers themselves in maths/physics are biased towards "risk takers". Risk takers are less likely to be female; less likely to come from backgrounds with no history of university; more likely to come from independent schools.

Yet curiously only maths and vetmed don't show gender as a significant component.

I can see how independent school "confidence" can help at University.

Maybe worth looking at some of the Villiars Park courses & programmes as well. www.villierspark.org.uk

*Villiers

Yet curiously only maths and vetmed don't show gender as a significant component.

Huh? Only around 20% of Cambridge maths students are female. This is far lower than the Russell Group average for maths (around 40%). Bright women are just not applying to Cambridge for maths because of its reputation, the admissions procedure (reliance on STEP) etc. There is a huge gender problem in Cambridge maths.

I can see how independent school "confidence" can help at University.

I can too, but I am talking about studies indicating that the actual exam papers are biased against certain groups of students. This is something to be fixed (and which is being fixed), not to be accepted, on the grounds that independent school students are more confident.

I don't disagree with either. The report in the link simply seems to suggest that the women who get into Cambridge do as well as the men, ie that there is not a gender component to the results. Perhaps the gender bias towards risk taking males is balanced by the additional selectivity amongst the women.

Ditto perhaps with schools. Independent/grammar/high performing schools may produce students who are more University, or perhaps Oxbridge, ready. A friend with two state educated DC is impressed by the support her non Oxbridge child got in her first term in things like research techniques, essay argument evidence and structure, and so on. Yes only three essays a term, rather than the weekly tutorial, but detailed individual comment/feedback on each. Oxbridge in contrast was more sink or swim. Is the problem really the University exams themselves or the fact that current school exams/syllabi don't encourage the development of study skills needed at University, and that the University teaching approach is not enabling bright students to bridge the gap.

*Oxbridge in contrast was more sink or swim. Is the problem really the University exams themselves or the fact that current school exams/syllabi don't encourage the development of study skills needed at University, and that the University teaching approach is not enabling bright students to bridge the gap

I agree that Oxford is very sink or swim, having had a DD there.

However I think it's reasonable for schools to focus their teaching on passing exams and learning study skills that will benefit the 99.9% of pupils that don't go to Oxbridge.

And I agree that the onus is on these universities themselves to teach the skills required in their system rather than sit back and complain .

the onus is on these universities themselves to teach the skills required in their system rather than sit back and complain .
I am afraid that I disagree with this.
Foundation years may be an option for school disadvantaged students but to teach sixth form level study skills at university changes the level of the course. Having to build-in extra for catch-up will divert student and tutor time from what are already intensive courses at Oxbridge or other high level universities will reduce the degree material that can be taught and the value of the degree.
Of course tutors may not all be uniformly good at feedback for university level learning but that is a different problem.

I wasn't suggesting that they teach sixth form level skills at university.

But to assume that every sixth form in the country will teach the skills required to manage first year at Oxbridge ( and not at other RG universities ) is just silly. And of course it sets up many student to struggle or even fail. And it puts off many more who might do very well.

Meantime the tutors can sit back and bemoan the good old days when most applicants came from elite public schools and were preprared for their particular style of teaching .

If they want to do things differently from 99% of schools in the country, they need to offer a bit of suport to student to transition.

Kr1stina if Oxford was that sink or swim they wouldn't have such a high level of retention. I think you're over egging it a bit: 'many' is a vast exaggeration I would have thought.

GoodyGoodyGumdrops

Top GCSE results

Clear idea of what he wants to study at A Level - speak to teachers and older students and find out what each subject's course entails

Reading around the subject (Oxford's faculty webpages often have ideas for preparatory reading for each undergrad. course)

Visit open day at Oxford and other unis - talk to current students and admissions staff

Researching online, taking himself off to museums etc. to feed his interest in the area(s) he wishes to study

Discussion group or similar at school - start one up at lunchtimes and invite others interested in discussion of current affairs / philosophy / culture / science / architecture / history / whatever. Head of sixth form should be able to provide guidance.

Relevant work experience / volunteering. Interestingly, I was at Oxford's medical school in the summer (I help with uni. applications at my school so was invited to a "guidance counselors" ' tour) and they said they're much more impressed by applicants who've mopped up bodily fluids in an old people's home or nursery or for a sick relative for six months or more than someone who got a fortnight's work shadowing with a surgeon who happened to be a family friend... The former is a better reflection of who's cut out for a medical degree, apparently.

Good luck!

Stranger, the issue is not one of retention but why type of school is one of the metrics that seems to predict exam performance. user7214743615 suggests this relates to an exam bias towards "risk takers", ie confident public school types.

I wonder whether the stats stem from the fact that some schools teach beyond the test and so pupils are more ready for University level work. Sink or swim may be a bit dramatic, but some otherwise bright kids seem to find the first term tough, including the different approach needed at University compared to A level, and may take them a while to find their feet. And that teaching methods employed in other, well regarded but non Oxbridge departments, may better support the transition.

Lljkk, - I think the key one is no parents having gone to uni, then postcode, school etc. I know of at least 3 from dds college to Cambridge summer school via sutton trust. The ones who didnt get accepted I think did have parents that went to uni.

Needmoresleep yes I get that about intellectual risk taking etc but was simply responding to the idea that Oxbridge is 'sink or swim' and that 'many' can't manage the transition. If they couldn't, they would drop out - and they don't, not in the numbers that other universities see at any rate. If the first term is a steep learning curve then my reaction would be - so what? Life isn't a smooth upward trajectory and I'm unconvinced that those who do drop out from Oxbridge are overwhelmingly from the lowest performing end of the state school sector. That is an entirely unscientific guess but from what Kr1stina says you would expect that to be the case. Apologies if the statistics say otherwise.

I said that "many struggle " with the different type of teaching and learning style . I'm not aware of any statistics on this, are you?

I Said nothing about those who drop out . These are your conclusions not mine.

I'm not sure if this debate is helping the OP TBH