3 student deaths at Bristol University

[bevelino]

I read today in the Bristol Post that 3 students have very sadly committed suicide in the first 3 weeks of term at Bristol University. My thoughts are with their families. I hope all students get the pastoral care they need.

[AddictedtoLove]

"don't exist". Just to be clear ...

[dippywhentired]

I went to Bristol Uni in the late 90s and did a 5 year, high-pressure degree. I remember feeling very homesick and unhappy in the first few weeks, until I found my group of friends.
A boy on my course committed suicide after Xmas of our 3rd year. He was extremely bright and popular, but he came from a background whereby he was the first person in his family to go to university. Whether he felt under pressure because of this, or suffered from depression, nobody knew. It came totally out of the blue. I think the reasons people commit suicide are complex and varied, and it is terribly sad.

[Headofthehive55]

Problems also occurred years ago too. I think we are just more aware of them now and are prepared to discuss them. I was aware of students being removed by their parents due to inability to cope - clearly near to the edge. However it was very hush hush - more so I think then. Whereas today I notice people are prepared to mention mental health breakdowns etc. It's really not as shameful so I think we are more aware if it. There are also more students too.

[Headofthehive55]

I do think the stakes are higher too these days. Students are very much focussed on the job market - I think it does ramp up the pressure. Certainly from what I overhear, anything less than a 2:1 is considered failing, and anything less than an RG uni is considered in an unfavourable light. No wonder they feel stressed!

It's a bit like having a baby, you read the glossy mags, see celebrities and buy into that idea. Then reality strikes. It's not always fun. It's boring. It's lonely.

I do think now people are starting to feel able to say oh I didn't enjoy my time at uni - it gives people permission to think that's normal, and valid. We don't cover up as much!

[Oblomov16]

This is worrying. I wonder what is going on? I'm not surprised by this at all though. I went to Bristol years ago to do an MA and I noticed that the pastoral care wasn't that great, not that I needed it myself, but many other students on BA courses there said similar.

[Oblomov16]

But I do agree that children unprepared (for uni) and pampered too much these days.
I was never lonely at uni. I enjoyed every single minute.

[AgentCooper]

And yes, I see students in denial, who then crash. It's really tough for them, but it's an essential life lesson - learning to look after oneself and ask for appropriate help

This is the key, Addicted - if there's no documentation nothing can be done, just as in the workplace if you don't call in sick there will be consequences. I read an article in an American magazine recently which discussed the 'epidemic' of anx/dep in young people. It concluded that yes, young people do seem to be much more anxious than in the past and it's a real, pressing problem, possibly created by this perfect storm of constant visibility (and visibility of others) on social media, fear of not getting a decent job in a saturated market and post-recession world, but also that children are so much more cosseted. They're not outside, falling over, falling out with friends without parents turning up at the school. They're not developing resilience or senses of responsibility and consequence. I think there's something in that, but then parents are negotiating a different world to the one they were raised in too. No easy answers.

[out4thecount]

I don't think we can speculate too much on these deaths or what caused them. Of course going to university is stressful, but is it any moreso than it has been in the past? Though the stresses may be different now.

I was suicidal at university 10 years ago. I didn't expect my tutors to provide pastoral support, and in fact I didn't inform them or anyone connected with my course about my depression. I didn't miss a lecture or fail an exam or assignment. I wasn't flaky with group work. One week I went to lectures wearing a scarf to hide the ligature marks from a suicide attempt. I utilised the university counselling service and saw a GP and NHS psychiatrist and got through it. Why would I have expected pastoral care from my tutor? They were there to guide my academic learning. My parents didn't and still don't know any of this. My course and a great group of housemates was a haven away from everything else that was going on in my life. Uni itself was not the cause of my problems and we don't know that it was for these 3 students either.

I know as a mum I'd want to know if my child was struggling, but as the struggling uni student I absolutely didn't want to make things worse by them knowing (which it would have) and when you're dealing with over 18s the decision about whether their parents are informed must be left with them.

[ToastByTheCoast]

Sometimes though the student having difficulties or feeling isolated is sending out signals they are unhappy and probably would really like those to be picked up. It is good when universities work with students to recognise the signs and let them know how to refer problems on. In first year private halls my DS had a flatmate who veered between being withdrawn or the life and soul of the party. He started missing lectures and separating from the others on nights out, then sending photos of himself in risky situations to their group chat. Was also found in situations of extreme risk in his room.

The group tried to look after him, dashing back from the club nights etc to intervene and make sure he was OK but didn't want to tell anyone as they thought he would be sent home and they would feel responsible. Not really mature enough at 18 to be in this position and only a couple of months in, they just don't know each other well enought to acknowledge worries. Eventually my DS contacted me to say how concerned he was about the other boy. But the group loyalty he felt was so strong that even my own DS would not give me his friend's name and without that the uni welfare service could not help as with private halls they cannot access any records. It took a couple of days negotiation with my DS and the welfare team to get the name passed on and then I understand they offered the boy really effective support. The welfare team were very concerned not just for the student at risk of suicide but also the effect on the whole group. The group loyalty that made them reluctant to flag up concerns about someone struggling really shocked me, though the uni said it was not unusual.

[AddictedtoLove]

Of course going to university is stressful, but is it any moreso than it has been in the past? Though the stresses may be different now

I think this is pretty spot on.

And as I say waaaay upthread, we really can't conclude anything from the sad news at Bristol - contiguity is not causation. And as we read in this forum all the time, many young people go to university with pre-existing health problems.

Personally, I tend to feel that if a parent is so worried about their DCs' health that they want a new law re Data Protection (as suggested upthread), then maybe that young person is not ready for university? It's not compulsory to go straight from school. Or go at all, for that matter.

[AddictedtoLove]

ToastbytheCoast I have seen the situation you describe several times over my career, and it is really frustrating. Some things stay with me: a couple of students from about 15 years ago - flatmates in halls. One with quite severe MH problems - a self-harmer, and I suspect with undiagnosed/in denial about depression. She was extremely emotionally manipulative as those with MH illnesses often are: she persuaded her flatmate never to leave her alone, by threatening suicide. Both missed most of the first 6 months of their degree course, although they handed in essays. The investigation was difficult because the ill person kept on threatening her flatmate with awful things if she sought help from the Halls pastoral support or the Department. The poor lass caught up in this had to take a year's leave of absence, as she was so affected by her flatmate's MH problems, as well as pretty much wrecking her own studies through absence. I still feel a wave of frustration about those two - if the healthy student had known to ignore the threats of the ill flatmate and had sought help, she could have continued her studies, and the ill student got the help she needed. Or 20 years ago, the young man who came to me in tears of despair & anger & guilt about his mother's serious illness, and the effect it was having on his ability to continue in his studies. Although I've been personally attacked on this thread for being harsh & arrogant, I'm actually the reverse, but being fair & equitable to all students sometimes annoys the "Special snowflake" contingent.

[MrsPeelyWally]

I had one at Bristol and I was surprised by the amount of students on her course who had problems with their mental health. I'd visit and ask about fellow students, how they were etc, and it was common to be told something that made me think jeez, how do they manage. Sadly one of them didn't manage and she commuted suicide even though there was very good pastoral and parental care in place for her. She also had the support of a few other students including my daughter who kept her under their wing. After the girl died pastoral care was increased because I believe that if there is a suicide then others can quickly follow - even within a family.

[Headofthehive55]

I do think it's absolutely fair that you need evidence from a health profession before you take things into account addicted .
There is a lot of mH problems. A school friend of my DD (different uni) flipped and ended up in hospital. No previous problem, none foreseen. You wonder why sometimes. Another ended up anorexic.

[MrsPeelyWally]

At times I think we are so caught up with inclusion and everyone being given a chance that we put vunerble people in situations that aren't in their best interest.

There were youngsters on my daughters course who quite frankly needed looking after, not being catapaulted out into the world because it's the done thing nowadays. There has to be a better balance.

[AddictedtoLove]

There were youngsters on my daughters course who quite frankly needed looking after, not being catapaulted out into the world because it's the done thing nowadays

'Twas ever thus - I started university at 17, almost 18, having spent a gap year working away from home (did A levels at 16). It was all quite tough, but there were things I wanted to do, so I had to [wo]man up.

Young people have always left home at about 18 - for war, national service, work, marriage, university, travel. I worry that they seem less well prepared for it.

[VanillaSugarAndChristmasSpice]

My DD goes to Royal Holloway. On Thursday night a student started 6 fires and was arrested whilst trying to burn down the Library. Obviously all the information is not in the public domain whilst the CPS prepare their case, but I am so sad, as a parent, that a 21 year old was driven to such craziness. There are more legal ways to bomb out. I am in bits that he's destroyed his life, but at the same time I appreciate that he did endanger life and the fire could have claimed huge fatalities. Our role as parents must allow our kids to fail without giving them the despair that they are failures.

[Headofthehive55]

Yes people have left home in the past at 18 - and there were problems then. Servicemen with ptsd - it's a well known issue even and people with breakdowns. It still happened.

I don't think a stiff upper lip is that helpful actually - the last thing you want is to pretend it's not happening and push things under the surface. Don't pretend you are waving when you are drowning sort of thing.

However I don't think it's totally the responsibility of Uni's. Life is stressful and what pushes one person over the edge doesn't affect another.

[bojorojo]

My mother was a student nurse during the 2nd world war - aged 17. They needed people in London and she had done pre training in a rural hospital. She told me she was in charge of a ward, at night, at 17. A couple of years later, as a midwife, she was delivering babies in people's homes in the wake of bombing. Of, course, others were in the services etc. Young people really did have to grow up very quickly and, whilst hoping nothing like this ever happens again, it seems to me that there are too many young people going to university who actually need the care of their parents but instead , go miles away from home. It is just not sensible.

I think that as the university sector has expanded, too many students are struggling to cope with the unique pressures of university. Perhaps working and studying for a degree part-time would be a better course of action for some? However, this is extremely difficult to access if you are 18.

I feel it is not helpful to say Bristol had poor pastoral services for students eons ago. Very many other universities have suicidal students. I do think that young people who have suicidal tendencies should not go away to university. Not all learning must be done between the age of 18 and 21. Getting well should be the number 1 priority.

[EnormousTiger]

I was away from uniiversity at 17 and very mature and quite happy. My mother had done two years of teacher training college by age 19 and was teaching classes of 40 on her own (no teaching assistants then).

I don't think age is the issue. It is just different people deal with things differently and we certainly need help for those who struggle.

Bristol is a very good university and I don't think it has more problems than anywhere else. My child who went there loved it, not least because of 3 hours of lectures a week so loads of time to do what she wanted.... laughing as I type... no pressure there then.

[bojorojo]

My DD didn't have a vast amount of contact time for 2 MFLs, but you have to know how to research, work on your own and meet the deadlines. You are not spoonfed at universities like Bristol where independent learning is essential. So many parents on MN only like universities with high teaching hours? Why? You must learn how to learn independently of lecturers and parents but lots of students are not used to this concept.

Often, maturity and resilience can improve with age. If someone is just not ready for university at 18, they should not go. It is no failure to wait a bit! Also, if the best support networks are at home and medical support is good, why compromise that by going away to university? I do not think medical support or the support at university can possibly meet the demand.

[BasiliskStare]

I have great sympathy for universities here. DS's university seem to make a great effort to publicise where students can get help for e.g. depression / other MH problems. But these problems are not always obvious at the time - if they were then I am sure many would take the gap year option. If a DC went straight into work I wonder how much help they would get there to access help. I think , slim to none by and large. And it is not always, even within a family, unless pre-existing, easy to spot these things when for example a person's friends haven't spotted it. It is the ability / willingness to recognise a problem oneself and then seek help which is the biggest thing IMHO. And that is true of anyone, not just students. Probably said too much there.