3 student deaths at Bristol University

[bevelino]

I read today in the Bristol Post that 3 students have very sadly committed suicide in the first 3 weeks of term at Bristol University. My thoughts are with their families. I hope all students get the pastoral care they need.

[sendsummer]

namechangedfor for you and your daughter.
bojorjo and GetaHairCurl I did not say that non-completion was more likely in selective schools What I said was that parents choosing between selective schools would get a better idea of the type of education at a school (including university advice and encouraging independent choices and resilience) by having this kind of information. DCs with tendencies to MH issues may mask these until university and anecdotally at very selective courses IME some DCs are focussed on the achievement and work needed of getting a place rather than what happens when they get there. I think schools (and parents) can help advise appropriately and not add to the pressure that some pupils put on themselves, perhaps encouraging time-out with gap years in some cases.

[EnormousTiger]

namechanged, I hope your daughter is okay.

I wish universities obtained or asked for a consent from the student when they start to contact the parent about matters of concern. It would be really easy to ask that question at the start. Those teenagers estranged from parents or just not wanting parents involved could just say no but many might consent and then the parents could be informed if there were a big problem and help to sort it out.

[bojorojo]

I too hope your DD is OK namechanged.

I do not think it is just schools striving for good results though. Lots of pressure from all quarters for some children: eg. that they must fulfil potential, be the best they can, not let themselves down, work hard etc etc. I totally agree that getting the university place is a massive focus, but that can be said for the BBB student as well as the AAA* student. I do think some of the pressure comes from the expectations of parents and some young people are clearly not well equipped for university and find life very difficult when they do not have continual hand-holding and advice. Continually being top at school is not always an indicator of being top at university, particularly if the student has worked exclusively on A Levels, had a lot of input and is not a rounded personality who can cope with what life throws at you at university.

My elder DD did not work that hard at university. She had a great time at Bristol. Others wanted to work much harder but did not get better results. It is important to keep a balanced life and she was lucky in that she appears to be able to work when needed but do other things as well. This is rarely discussed on mumsnet - there is an obsession with first class degrees and all the outcomes I list above. She now has a great job and is working hard. She knows how to work but she also knows how to play and relax to keep healthy. Pushing for the high results, fear of not getting a job and keeping up appearances really does add to stress. It is not vital to be the best but it is vital to be happy.

I agree, bluesky: Bristol has a pretty pathetic Union. Fresher Events are mainly halls based and really not that full-on. There are a few social activities but students do not necessarily do all of them. Bristol University is a place where students do it for themselves because they are in the city and not on a campus miles from anywhere.

I do agree that parents should be involved where students have MH issues but as we know, these are not always evident before the student starts. It is a very adult and savvy group of students who will notice something is wrong with a student they barely know and report it.

I also agree that for some students, a transition year is important. A break from A level pressure, doing a job, cooking, finding hobbies again that were dropped for A levels could all help with mental health and not least, really understanding what is needed at university and how to enjoy it rather than just see it as more pressure.

[namechangedfordaughter]

Thank you for your lovely messages, she is still in A&E, waiting for pysch team. I feel as if we are going to be thrown out in to the wilderness with no support.
I will go up next week and clear her room out.
There was just no indication of this coming.

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

Something that crossed my mind this morning was that many courses begin with large joint modules in the first year that in some places might have up to 400 students on them, they then specialise more in smaller groups in the second year, but I wonder if these enormous cross-taught lectures really don't help those who are struggling.
Another thing for parents to remember is that the 'disability' services at university will often review those needing support due to pre-existing MH issues as well if you get your child to contact them before starting at the institution.

[Slightlyperturbedowlagain]

namechanged I hope your daughter finds a way through this, have you had useful contact from UWE?

[namechangedfordaughter]

slightly I am not sure what to with regards to UWE, I don't think that they will speak to me for confidentiality reasons.
I know that she felt like a failure for not getting in to a 'good' university. I didn't even want her to go, she definitely pressured herself to go down a more academic route than maybe was right for her.

Her two younger siblings are very clever and she compares herself. It's breaking my heart, she is just completely shut down. She is very upset that she was found in time so I think that she really did mean to do it.

[LIZS]

So sorry to hear this Namechanged. Would she agree to you contacting their student services or pastoral officer if only to get her advice as to how to move forward and pass a message on to the department. She really needs to take some time out to recover and review.

[hellsbells99]

Namechanged - sorry to hear about your daughter . Bring her home and give her lots of TLC.
My DD dropped out of university last year. She also had no signs of any MH issues before she left home. The final straw was her phoning me when she was sat on the floor outside a lecture room sobbing and couldn't physically walk inside the room. My DH went and got her. The uni were very good, and DD and I did meet up with her tutor the following week - uni will speak to you if your DD gives permission. DD then spent 6 months living at home and working part-time and doing some self-studying. DD has gone to university again this year but a different course and within commuting distance although chose to go in first year halls. She seems a very different person this year. She is a lot calmer and more mature, and also a lot happier.
All you can do is be there and give lots of support.
Please look after yourself too.

[AddictedtoLove]

I wish universities obtained or asked for a consent from the student when they start to contact the parent about matters of concern. It would be really easy to ask that question at the start

But why should tutors have to make up for problematic family dynamics? If you have a good relationship with your children, they will keep in touch with you & let you know if something serious is going on, or they need advice or support.

And even with the Data Protection Act, I regularly (as a Head of Department) have parents telephoning or emailing to complain about their children's essay marks or how "unfairly" we're treating their darling.

Luckily for me, the DPA means it's usually illegal for me to tell them anything specific about their DC.

Luckily for them, I can't, as often the DC in question has been behaving unprofessionally, skipping classes, or disrupting group work. All reasons for implementing disciplinary procedures/penalties in my department.

[hellsbells99]

Addictedtolove - this thread is not really the appropriate place for ranting about parents and disciplinary procedures etc.

[Dunlurking]

I second that hellsbells We are horrified and worried in equal measure on here and sharing the concerns and sympathy. It's a Mum's thread.

I would be embarrassed if I worked at a university and it was getting this publicity for suicides and overdoses, regardless of how little funding was coming from government or parents.

[sendsummer]

namechangedfordaughter however awful she is feeling at the moment your DD will feel lucky in the future that she was found in time and that she has parents like you to support her through this time of illness.

[TulipsInAJug]

Just wanted to say AddictedToLove, your tone is very abrasive and you come across as very highhanded and unsympathetic. I'm glad you don't teach my DC.

[TulipsInAJug]

And I teach year 13s. Mental health issues I'm this age group have skyrocketed in the last few years, linked in my view to the frequency of exams, the recession, the rise in tuition fees, the insecure labour market, high expectations and (perhaps most of all) the unique pressures brought by social media.

I've seen very little evidence that it has anything to do with helicopter parenting.

[namechangedfordaughter]

for the comments, I can't talk about it in real life. Sorry for hijacking the thread, it came up in active last night and I was whiling away the hours in A&E. We have just got home and the crisis team are visiting next week.
We are the least pushy parents, we are not helicopter parents either, I really don't think it's that.

[AddictedtoLove]

I am not the one jumping to conclusions about the three young people who have died and the causes of their deaths. I am not the one throwing baseless accusations around about universities' lack of care, in a frankly sensationalist way.

I teach these young people and your children actually are lucky to be taught by me and people like me. It does not help for threads like this to turn into the knee jerk reactions of many of the posts, blaming "universities" (again, I ask, whom do you mean by that?) wit very little accurate information about the events at Bristol, and using those as a rant about the shoddy arrogant expensive universities.

As several posters - both academics and teachers of late years high school/college pupils - attest here it is a complex matter. We find ourselves in a society and an education culture which is becoming decidedly unhealthy for a small minority of young people. We are all complicit in this. All of us.

I work in a department which is a national leader in student satisfaction in my discipline. I know what my colleagues and I do in order to hold our students safe in a nurturing environment. And I know the limits of our ability to do that. I can't tell you some of the family situations that my students gradually, little by little, tell me about. My colleagues & I do what we can to help them develop so that they have the resilience to deal with these situations.

[TulipsInAJug]

I haven't seen anyone here blaming universities. I have no idea why you're being so defensive.

namechangedfordaughter

[TulipsInAJug]

Sorry, to be clear my comment was to Addicted.

[EnormousTiger]

namechange, I don't even thinkg looking for reasons is worth it anyway. Just see what can be done. Can she not just continue the course though? I am not down playing a suicide attempt but if she wants to carry on the normality of that but with more support is surely an alternative option?

(I agree that obtaining a consent from the student at the start to contact a parent if there is a serious issue might not be popular with the universities but I bet most of the academics would want to be contacted if it were their child with a major issue. We are not talking about being told if they come home drunk once but something more serious like they've dropped out or are in hospital.)

I agree it is all very difficult and like boho above I had a daughter at Bristol who was quite relaxed and it worked well - 3 hours lectures a week only was a plus point for her in 3 very enjoyable years.

Someone mentioned special needs help. My dyspraxic son did find that useful at university. He needed a system of reminding about what he had to do when and they were very helpful.

[sashh]

There's situations such the one I have mentioned, group work task, is it ideal for the MH sufferer to be working in them or the rest of the group to have to work round situations where someone with MH will present very unstable work ethics through no fault of their own. But it only causes animosity towards that person even if they try not to show it or confront them with their feelings in fear of MH sufferer getting worse from say giving work deadlines or being too critical of work collated.

But in my group work I was the one with MH issues (and physical disability), it was the parent in the group who never turned up or had to leave early and basically didn't contribute.

[BottleBeach]

AddictedtoLove - I think your posts have been excellent.

Universities are there to provide an opportunity for students to learn. They do not exist to be substitute parents. I say this as someone who was terribly unhappy in my first year at university. I was desperately homesick; I missed all my friends from home, many of whom I had known since primary school, and I couldn't understand everyone talking about the 'best friend' they'd met last week. It takes me much longer to build friendships, and at the time I felt there must be something wrong with me, that I was the only one who hadn't formed an instant circle of new friends. If social media had been around then it would have made everything a million times worse - both missing my old friends and feeling left out of what was going on around me. But it didn't occur to me to ask the university for help. I was a grown up, and it was up to me to decide whether to stick at it, or go back home and try something else. I stuck at it, and slowly, slowly, things got better. I learnt lessons about myself that first year which stay with me now.

To anyone who knows the young people at Bristol- I am so sorry for your loss. I wish you strength and love in this dreadful time.

namechanged - I hope your daughter makes a good recovery, and you are both able to access the support you need

[user7214743615]

I agree that obtaining a consent from the student at the start to contact a parent if there is a serious issue might not be popular with the universities but I bet most of the academics would want to be contacted if it were their child with a major issue.

The issue has nothing to do with popularity with universities - academics would LOVE to be able to talk to parents, not only for mental health issues but when students ring to complain about how poorly their DC have done. (We can't say that DC did poorly because they didn't show up in classes, turn in assignments unless student explicitly consents to this.)

The issue is that the legal advice to universities is that a simple catch-all waiver would not suffice. Legal advice is that students must consent to all conversations with parents and all disclosures to parents.

[user7214743615]

Sorry, of course I meant when parents ring to complain about DC's poor grades.

[user7214743615]

BTW I have personally had discussions with my university's legal team because I was desperate to find a legal loophole, so I could contact parents of one student. It is really not the universities who are objecting to sharing information with parents.