Are these GCSEs good enough for Oxbridge?

[lawlawlaw]

Hello all.
Have been chatting with family over christmas about my daughters future... She want's to study history.
Family think she should apply to Oxbridge (of course they would)
Her GCSEs were good but not stellar. She had 6A* and 6A (all in hard subjects though)
She goes to an average comp if that gives any help as I've heard they are more leniant with results for state educated pupils.
She is ridiculously passionate about her subject. It's honestly her whole life.

Could any fellow mumsnetters give some advice... Should I help her to apply? Are these results under average for Oxbridge?

Oh and the school have suggested she apply but they aren't very experienced in the field so I don't want her to set her heart on it if there's no chance.

Fine. I got in (and declined) with much worse (think B's, C's) from an under performing comp. Think context massive factor: my results looked pretty unimpressive next to someone from private school, but good in context of school. Would be thinking more about AS levels now.

Eastpoint why is the LNAT relevant? .

I really don't know why people immediately assume state school equates with requiring outreach. There are many very, very good state schools out there. Beyond that, some of the 'Oxbridge prep' at independents is patently ridiculous - interviewing tutors try to pick out what's 'trained', thankfully. Also, why do people jump on the need to apply after A2s/ look at a whole load of unis? This is a state school student who would be applying with perfectly acceptable grades. Those grades alone won't be enough to get a place, but she's not in a bad position at all to send in an application. The process really isn't complicated or time consuming and it always puzzles me when people say it is.

4th term and 7th term are anachronisms. 'Post A levels' is the terminology better understood by ordinary folk.

Thanks for all your kind and informative messages! I'd never heard of this "7th" term way before so I had a quick google. Apparently it was made redundant 25 years ago, so I suppose the term now just means gap year application?

She's predicted A/A* in all her subjects, but will have to check the exact predicitons in parents evening.

I've made a list of things that I'll suggest she applies for, although most seem concerned about parents education... Which rules her out

Oh I did post something similar, but thought I'd ask specifically in regards to Oxbridge.

She likes modern history, especially imperial. Although I think she'd like Classics but hasn't had any chance to study greek/latin so that's out of the window

I'll have to try and find out when open days start. Would be good to get something before her AS to push her motivate her to study

Completely agree with you Molio. Our local (non selective) state school secondary had 10 year 13 students offered a place with Oxbridge for a September 2015 start. Which suggests that it wasn't necessary to wait until post a-level results.

There are many good reasons to take a gap year, but with those GCSE results and good grades predicted at a-level, I really don't think it's necessary here.

lawlawlaw - just been talking about this thread with my wife. She has been involved in helping Oxbridge candidates (science and medicine) prepare for their Oxbridge interviews. The candidates are all from our DSs private school (not very high league table). Our own DS is doing GCSE this year and predicted to get 6 A and 6A* hence my interest in the thread.

This is what my wife said.

She differs slightly from my opinion. She basically thinks all candidates should try for both the 4th term (pre A level) application and then if they miss it and don't get a conditional offer to ask for a report as to why they failed. This will give feedback. If they miss narrowly then definitley try for 7th term (post A level).

Applicants for history at Oxford all have to do the History Aptitude Test (HAT).

The link above discusses the HAT in detail.

At Oxford there are then interviews depending on how the candidate does in HAT and the strength of their application in general. Cambridge application is a bit different although there may be a an informal written test in some colleges and then an interview.

The interviews are the hard part to prepare for. If your DD has a real passion that should shine through. My wife helps candidates prepare for the interview. She gives them an Oxbridge style interview. Many are totally phased by this even sat in the comfort of their own school. The very bright student should get through the HAT but an interview is less easy to prepare for. You have to find someone who can give her practice - hence at DSs school they ask parents with Oxbridge backgrounds to help out.

She should definitely look at the Uniq summer schools. They are for state school pupils with good GCSE results. Yes, they will give priority to pupils in deprived areas, etc but there are enough places to take pupils from a wide variety of backgrounds (or perhaps not enough applicants from deprived areas with the right grades?) I know plenty of kids in my area (quite affluent) who have got a place. The Cambridge Welcome Trust one is different in that it is impossible to get a place if you don't fulfill the criteria afaik

"Fine. I got in (and declined) with much worse (think B's, C's) from an under performing comp. Think context massive factor: my results looked pretty unimpressive next to someone from private school, but good in context of school. Would be thinking more about AS levels now"

You would not get in to Oxbridge with Bs and Cs under any circumstances. And there is no opportunity for a 7th term in state schools. I suspect some people have been reading too much Evelyn Waugh.

OP - those results are fine- if she wants to she should give it a go!

So do I understand it that OPs DD is sitting AS? In all subjects?

That's right, she's sitting her AS in May. I feel I should start hinting at revision

Am I right in thinking that History A level has been decoupled from A2?

Which A levels are linear now?

When my DD was considering to apply for Cambridge History highlighted strong point on her part was her essay writing. However dd changed her mind and applied for a different course which doesn't exist in Oxbridge.

How strong is your dd's essay writing?

Classics is definitely not impossible without Latin and Greek! I read Classics at Oxford coming from a state comp.

Oxford does course IIA (starting with Latin from scratch and picking up Greek if desired in third year) and course IIB (vice versa). Aimed largely at state school applicants - I did IIA - and a four year course like the standard Classics degree (IA/IB/IC).

Cambridge now has a four year classics course for applicants without Latin or Greek - basically a foundation year grounding you in the classical language(s), followed by their standard three year classics BA.

She should look into it if interested - might be worth her attending the JACT Latin summer school or Bryanston Greek course if keen. Tutors are looking for interest and passion, so having read key texts like the Aeneid and Iliad, or seen productions of Greek Tragedy, under own dream.

Steam, not dream.

liney I thought history? But prepared to be corrected.

Except I did, with A's and A*s in relevant subjects. Had a low offer, and declined in favour of UCL. But this was some time ago. Obv. have to have good GCSE's, but they are certainly not the be all and end all.

ABetaDad1 you do NOT need to do special preparation before an interview.

Godstopper- you would most definitely not get in now. Excellent GCSEs are the first hurdle. Fail to clear that and you're stuffed.

DC can take an AS in subjects which are uncoupled. Doesn't make a great deal of sense, but there you go.

Maybe. Maybe not: My A*s/A's were in core subjects, and my profile was very unusual to say the least, with coming from a school in special measures one of the more less worrisome things! Context does count.

That said, Oxbridge is certainly not the best place and fit for many (it certainly wasn't for me). Beyond a certain level, it's hard to distinguish Oxbridge from some other places, and I'd be thinking about, say, an RG university. Now I'm actually in academia, Oxbridge doesn't count for a great deal- it's kindov assumed we're all working at a similar level (expect may well be different for employability if just pursuing an UG degree).

Molio - well you don't have to practice its true but every private school child is prepared this way and that is why they dominate the list of people who get in to Oxford or Cambridge.

Most 17/18 yr olds have never done a serious interview before and coming across well in an Oxbridge interview is the main differentiating factor. Personal statements are very generic.

ABetaDad1 I disagree. Interview preparation is not the reason why independent schools have more pupils getting into Oxford or Cambridge than state schools in relative terms, that's incredibly superficial. Also, although the top schools no doubt know what they're doing in terms of replicating interviews pretty accurately, it seems to me that some other independent interview prep sounds rubbish - a mere sop to the parents. Tutors are not so daft they they can't differentiate the polish of a Westminster kid or a SPGS kid from the unschooled style of an average state school kid, indeed the tutors who are new to interviews have guidance to help them distinguish. My own view is that too much 'preparation' must have the potential to hinder not help, but it's not a problem I've had to wrestle with on a personal level, since my DC weren't at a fee paying school and had none of this stuff.

Also I think you mean fazed, not phased.

I think that independent schools are better at persauding their kids to apply to good universities in the first place. Some privately educated kids have incredible confidence gained from focussed teaching, extra curricular activites and good teaching. A lot of state schools have hang ups about their kids and maybe don't challenge opinions that Oxbridge is not for liked of working class kids.

Issues go way, way beyond interview performance.

Have recently become aware of admission under the Realizing Opportunities scheme where a disadvantaged student may receive an offer lower than the standard. That is exactly how it should be for some - once they get there they will typically do well, just way more obstacles than most in first place.