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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

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Original poster

So confused - how does a D grade equate to an A pass at A level?

75 replies

justgoandgetalife · 02/12/2015 23:00

DS16 has been given a D for his latest History exam. He says that's the same as a A in the final exam? Can someone please explain what he is talking about? He claims that the exam used 'unknown sources'. Don't know what that means either!

Should I be concerned or does this sound right? I want to email the tutor to ask for clarification but I am being made to feel so stupid. On top of rowing with my other 2 DS about school/college related issues, I am confused and upset. DS16 says j don't need to email the college as his result is fine, but where I come from a D is not an A, or am I really missing something here?

Please help - I'm at my wits end.

OP posts:

Molio · 04/12/2015 17:49

I'm glad the teacher has verified the point. Don't worry if the apology isn't taken magnanimously - he's a teen and tbf DF in particular sounds very harsh (I'd be expecting an 'I told you so, you never believe what I say' [slam door] etc ). Good luck with the next two years!

Brioche201 · 04/12/2015 18:20

a D at this point is considered a good pass and indicates an A at completion.

That only makes sense if he sat an exam on the whole syllabus even though he has only done 10 weeks learning?Is that what the teacher means ? It sounds to me

Molio · 04/12/2015 18:26

Brioche I think it was a sample source paper. It sounds very much the same sort of test and grading system that my six eldest had for that part of the syllabus, when they did history in the sixth form. It does actually make complete sense and I can't imagine the teacher is complicit in a complicated subterfuge with the DS to stitch up the parents. Far easier in that case just to give him an A - this is far too subtle .

Molio · 04/12/2015 18:27

I might just say at this point I'm amazed at how many people don't seem to understand Y12 grading. It's not rocket science.

BertieBotts · 04/12/2015 18:29

It's different to the US system where grades indicate overall performance for the level the student is working at. It actually doesn't really make sense to have letter grades for this kind of system, I think numbered grades would make more sense. (Isn't the UK moving to those soonish?)

If you converted the letters to numbers - you'd get this:

A = 7
B = 6
C = 5
D = 4
E = 3
F = 2
G = 1
U = 0 (Unclassified/fail)
(A* = 8)

Perhaps he started at Level 1 or 2 as those are covered by his existing knowledge. He's currently learned all of the Level 3 and 4 material, so he's at Level 4. But by the speed he's learning, they think that at the end of the course, he'll have mastered levels 5-7 too, and be able to achieve a Level 7 in the final exam.

I don't know if that helps or makes it worse but anyway!

Brioche201 · 04/12/2015 18:37

What do you mean Molio? I have had 2 DC through Y12 and the way they have been graded has been different (although they are doing STEM subjects) they do a module and then are tested on just that module.So they have learned all the material and a grade is therefore representative of what they would get in the real exam.

Molio · 04/12/2015 18:37

It's not a knowledge based paper Bertie. Also, no we're not moving to numbers here for A Levels at the moment, but there's no particular merit of numbers over letters or vice-versa. In fact I find the new GCSE 1-9 all rather silly, leaving a space for a potential 10 in the future. Much better surely just to clamp down on grade inflation so everyone has parity of qualifications.

Molio · 04/12/2015 18:41

Brioche if you read the thread it's been made clear that different subjects are differently graded. I'm not sure why it's hard to take that on board. Also, kids do tend to improve, even in science, simply by virtue of maturity.

HocusCrocus · 04/12/2015 19:52

(although they are doing STEM subjects) they do a module and then are tested on just that module.So they have learned all the material and a grade is therefore representative of what they would get in the real exam.

That only makes sense if he sat an exam on the whole syllabus

Right, I have tried - obviously in a piss poor fashion - to try to explain this . I refer to my crap ox bow lake analogy above.

AFAIK For this one history source test / exam the syllabus is essentially analytical skills not knowledge and you cannot test them in isolation whilst having an eye to the main exam.

It would be a bit like trying to test analysis of a sight unseen poem in Eng Lit when you have only covered in class metaphor and metre. You could not find a poem where the only things to be said about it are about metaphor and metre. Nor would it be helpful to the pupil to consider those two things in strict isolation - so you set an exam on the end game and then using past experience and skill and judgment say - typically a DC who is performing at this level at the end of the 1st term has a decent chance of getting to X grade (for which opinion you have backup.)

Brioche201 · 04/12/2015 21:30

Ah right, thank you Hocus .You make sense!

BackforGood · 04/12/2015 22:14

Thank you cwtch - that fits with what she said to me...that she's always enjoyed physics as it's like maths.. you learn the 'rules' then you only have to apply them, but this term it seems like there have been chunks and chunks of fact memorising to do, which perhaps isn't her forte.

I agree with others that more essay based subject will be marked differently though - that was the rports we got i her essay based subjects (and, with ds in a different 6th form when he was doing them) - they are just beginning to learn skills at this stage in the course, and, for this stage in the course it's OK to not have mastered them yet, doesn't mean that they won't have in another year, or indeed 18months times.

Topseyt · 04/12/2015 22:17

It has a fair logic to it.

The exam shows your DS (and his teachers, and you) what level he is at now, still fairly near the beginning of the course. It means that over the next 18 months or however long is left he has a very good chance of rising to the standard required for an A.

I am glad you have now understood. It is praise, support and encouragement that are needed now. Not a shouting match and dressing down.

The step up from GCSEs to A Levels is absolutely huge. You cannot expect top grades at this stage of proceedings. A D grade certainly does not mean he has been slacking. Quite the opposite. He is doing well.

Now to get your DH to climb down from his high horse and appreciate how badly he has treated his son. He needs to rein it in, or you run the real risk that your DS will stop confiding in you about his progress.

Make sure your DH knows you are apologising and no longer support his stance. He needs to back down just as you have.

ClancyMoped · 05/12/2015 00:11

Molio
im amazed at how many people don't seem to understand Y12 grading. It's not rocket science..

. Some of my DCs teachers certainly struggled with the concept . State sixth form college.

Most were good but one or two were clueless.

Molio, I think it's a bit unfair having a pop at people that don't understand it. Not every parent can be or wants to be so involved in their DCs schoolwork. I'm a very supportive Mum but haven't found the need to understand the way the marking schemes work. I left it to my kids to tell me how they were doing and if they needed help with things.

Molio · 05/12/2015 08:58

Clancy I think your threshold for 'having a pop' seems remarkable low. And understanding simple differences between subject marking at A Level carries with it no implication of being especially involved. Thus the conversation in our house with the eldest DC went something like this:

Me: 'Anything happen at school today, any news?'
DC: 'I got a D for my English assessment'
Me: 'Oh never mind'
DC: 'Fuck off, you don't know what you're talking about that was really good - it's marked as an A level grade and I came almost top'.
Me: 'Oh ok. keep your hair on. How was I to know? Well done'.

It's a state school too. I'm not sure why you imply a state school might be less up to speed with a marking policy than an independent either. There's no magic in it and teachers only need to understand it for their one subject, so I doubt it's beyond any of them, even the least able amongst them.

Topseyt · 05/12/2015 10:03

Why the slur on state 6th form colleges. That's very judgmental. In my experience they are very on the ball with marking systems and all else.

ClancyMoped · 05/12/2015 10:28

I didnt mention independent schools and I wasn't being rude about state sixth form colleges However my 4 DC went to one and unfortunately there were one or two teachers who were useless. Its not being 'judgemental' it's a fact. As I mentioned before most their teachers were good and several were excellent.

The teacher that was useless did not understand the the official marking schemes or, if she did, she ignored them. She specialized in giving a mark per paragraph regardless of content.
It wasn't too much of an issue as she barely marked any of their assessments anyway.

...and the punchline is that she has gone to work at a private school. A very academic one at that.

Interestedininfo · 05/12/2015 10:52

Molio keep your hair on. How was I to know? Well done'.
your eldest had to put you right before you understood the grading, most parents are at the same stage as you were then. As you say it is not rocket science once it has been explained.

A little prewarning at the start of sixth form by history teachers of this would avoid a lot of Y12s going through the same unnecessary commiserations for getting a poor mark in a source test.

Molio · 05/12/2015 12:00

Yes quite Interestedininfo and it took less than a second for the explanation to be absorbed and accepted by me whereas a number of posters with DC in or through sixth form seem to think this is a confusing system, which it isn't. It's very simple and makes absolute sense. It's not peculiar to history either, or even the source paper (it's simply that OP seemed cynical about the idea that there might be 'unknown' authors and concluded from that that had her DS done more work he'd have known who they were, which isn't correct). This is a pretty universal system of marking as far as I know, but different subjects tend to throw up different results at the start of Y12.

Listen to the DC.

Molio · 05/12/2015 12:03

Clancy I've come across some incredibly weak teachers in the independent sector, so your punchline doesn't surprise me one bit.

Original poster

justgoandgetalife · 05/12/2015 15:09

Little update : DS16 was actually very magnanimous when we apologised! He even smiled & said it just showed how old we were that we didn't understand how the duration system works these days!! Bless him

We took that one on the chin!

OP posts:

Original poster

justgoandgetalife · 05/12/2015 15:10

...education system...

OP posts:

HocusCrocus · 05/12/2015 15:11

ClancyMoped · 05/12/2015 15:16

Pleased to hear it went well.

Molio · 05/12/2015 16:28

Sounds like a good result OP.

Pun intended :)

Topseyt · 05/12/2015 19:46

That is the best result OP. Your DS sounds like a lovely boy and I am sure he will do himself and all of you proud. Well done. It is hard sometimes when as parents we realise we have got it wrong.

This stage of parenting is hard. It is the start of the letting them go phase, and letting them become independent. Instead of driving them forward we have to often take a back seat and let them organise their own study time, homework and schoolwork.

I should think your DS is now very relieved that you have understood and have talked to him. He will now be able to get on with his studies in a much more relaxed frame of mind.

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