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Original poster

So confused - how does a D grade equate to an A pass at A level?

75 replies

justgoandgetalife · 02/12/2015 23:00

DS16 has been given a D for his latest History exam. He says that's the same as a A in the final exam? Can someone please explain what he is talking about? He claims that the exam used 'unknown sources'. Don't know what that means either!

Should I be concerned or does this sound right? I want to email the tutor to ask for clarification but I am being made to feel so stupid. On top of rowing with my other 2 DS about school/college related issues, I am confused and upset. DS16 says j don't need to email the college as his result is fine, but where I come from a D is not an A, or am I really missing something here?

Please help - I'm at my wits end.

OP posts:
Molio · 03/12/2015 21:36

OP the knee jerk reaction of you and his dad sounds seriously unhealthy. titchy isn't correct as regards history - grades are very definitely expected to improve and the students are generally marked on the AS/ A2 scale from the start of the course. I think I'm correct in saying that in sciences the easier topics are studied first, so an A in those early on isn't especially indicative of an A or A/ A* later on. I don't think your DS is 'trying it on' and he must be very demoralised by your joint approach. Poor kid. Do you nag him about everything?

LIZS · 03/12/2015 21:48

I guess it depends what UMS the D equates to. Theoretically it may still be possible to get an A overall if he scored full UMS in all the other units^^ and that paper carried relatively less weight. Unlikely though.

Molio · 03/12/2015 21:56

LIZS he's only a short way through Y12. This isn't a proper AS paper, it's just an internal assessment. People need to chill.

BackforGood · 03/12/2015 22:24

I think I'm correct in saying that in sciences the easier topics are studied first

Hope not - dd found the first 1/2 term really hard Shock

Original poster
justgoandgetalife · 03/12/2015 22:33

Molio: yes it's unhealthy to react as we have done. I get cross if I think I've had the wool pulled over my eyes (all 3 DSs have a frequent history of telling fibs when it comes to this kind of thing, so I'm always a bit suspicious) but DH seems so incredibly over the top. Where I get angry but then hope I balance it up with finding out what he deal actually is by asking his tutor (& giving DS16 the benefit of he doubt), DF just goes off on one without any flexibility about asking anyone else.

He's just come home from a week away and gone straight to have a go at DS yet again without even listening to me tell him I'd already emailed the tutor so he should lay off!!

Anyway, don't want to turn this into a parenting thread, so back to the issue at hand...

OP posts:
Molio · 04/12/2015 08:05

BackforGood I didn't say the sciences were easy, just that the topics studied first tend to be more straightforward and therefore a good grade in those doesn't necessarily indicate a good grade at the end of A2. History is different - the skills needed for source papers is a skill which develops over two years. I don't think a D is terrible for a first attempt and I don't believe the DS is doomed by that, although he might well be doomed by the DF.

OP honestly, have a go at the DF not at your DS. Don't you see why your DC lie? How do you seriously expect your DS to feel like studying if he's upset because you're on his case all the time, being Mr and Mrs Irrationally-Angry?

ClancyMoped · 04/12/2015 08:45

Of course it depends on the child and the behavior but by A levels your relationship with your child should be shifting gears away from treating them kids and towards letting them be responsible for their own behaviour. i admit our house wasn't completely nag free Blush at all times but generally it was up to the kids how hard they worked at school.

I didn't feel it was my job to tell them off or be very dissapoonted in them for their school work. I'd have a moan at them if needed about other things but their school work was theirs to manage.

It worked for my four DC. Having a more adult relationship meant they respected my opinion more and I think it meant they took a lot more responsibility for their own actions. It also kept things less stressful. The A level years can be extremely stressful for DC and throwing in Victorian Dad isn't going to help.

Molio · 04/12/2015 09:01

Yes Clancy agree however the OP doesn't even understand what the DS is telling her about the source paper, or why a low grade now is in history is in an important sense not what it appears. These parents are just shouting, not listening. It sounds seriously grim. I don't see how they can expect to squeeze a good outcome out of their DS with that kind of attitude. To be fair to OP, DF sounds worse, but she's not really covering herself in glory either. I think DS is owed an apology and then the whole family needs to adopt a completely different approach - easier said than done of course.

HocusCrocus · 04/12/2015 09:32

Just - your DH to one side please do read and try to understand Molio's point about whether it was a source paper (implied by "unknown sources"). If it was, this is not a test of historical knowledge for which he could revise. This is testing a skill - analysing and interpreting an historical document and, as she says with practice and familiarity he should improve. A D at this early stage may well have been a decent stab depending on how much they have already practised. I am speculating and the tutor will know. Sorry to repeat what Molio has said but I think it does bear repetition if you nor your DH are familiar with this kind of question. If it a source paper it is not as simple as we have covered X% of the syllabus so DS should be able to get 100% on that X%.

tuilamum · 04/12/2015 09:46

HocusCrocus has a very good point I hadn't thought of that. In exams you need to answer questions in a very specific manner in order to please the examiner, they have a little checklist of points that need to be ticked off and its a skill to be able to read a question and know what the examiner is looking for. It's very different to just knowing the information, and imo it's more difficult.
I also agree with Clancy is your DS planning on going to uni? Would you expect to be informed about every aspect of his studies there too? If you loosen the reigns a little you might be surprised at what he can achieve off his own steam. He's becoming an adult, not saying he's all the way there, but given that he's now studying his choice in subjects, you can assume that he's actually interested in them and therefore actually wants to do well.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 04/12/2015 09:48

One of the key skills in History is the ability to write the essays correctly, that doesn't mean the correct information it's about the way the information is presented and that is a skill that needs to be learnt at A level. The problem with a subject like History is that it isn't about questions and answers which can be tailored easily to the information already learnt but also about how you put that information across and it's that skill which will hold back the grades at this point and will improve over the 2 years. In my daughters case yes a D at this point did equate to an A at the end of the 2 years.

Molio · 04/12/2015 10:02

I think only myself and Hocus are picking up the point about this being a source paper. It's not about writing essays in a specific way, it's about a particular skill and it's a very different kettle of fish from science or even a particular essay on a particular topic in history.

Brioche201 · 04/12/2015 10:31

At 6th form parents evenings at my DCs school, the parents are superfluous really.It is a discussion between teachers and students that parents sit in on.

Interestedininfo · 04/12/2015 11:30

I completely get what Molio and Hocus have explained about the rational of grading like this as a baseline for the skill of analysis of sources.
Obviously there has to be trust between parent and DC for information passed onto DCs rather than the parents. However it would save time and explanations for something as initially counterintuitive for parents and DCs as this grading if the department heads of sixth form colleges issued some sort of brief guide to testing and measurements of progress

Molio · 04/12/2015 14:43

Interestedininfo a DC should feel safe enough in his own house to say I got a D in my history assessment and it's marked as an AS/ A2 grade, so that's not too bad without his parent instantly dissolving into hysterics. And subjects differ, as I've said.

CwtchMeQuick · 04/12/2015 14:56

BackforGood I wouldn't worry too much. I've studied sciences and I don't think its the case that easier topics are studied first, I think it's more an overview of the topics which then get taught in greater detail later on.
For many a levels are a shock to the system. A lot will make more sense to your DD when the topics are discussed further. From my experience the first term is learning the facts, it's after that that you understand the facts.

OP, I'm not sure about the test but presumably your DS is 16/17. I'm not sure I'd have been happy about my mom emailing my tutors when I was his age. Perhaps you need to take a step back and let him be in charge of his own work

Original poster
justgoandgetalife · 04/12/2015 15:12

As a lot of PPs said - the tutor responded to say that this grade relates to the entire 2 year A level course, so a D at this point is considered a good pass and indicates an A at completion. Just gives us a nasty shock as, having been brought up in what feels like the dark ages, where we knew that a D related to that one term's exam, we are now expected to understand that this D means that if he sat the actual final exam now, he'd get a D [though who thought this was a good way of marking papers needs a stiff word as far as I'm concerned - wasn't Michael Gove, by any chance...?], but as he's only done one term so far, that's actually a good mark!

My head hurts!Confused

OP posts:
Original poster
justgoandgetalife · 04/12/2015 15:16

...of course, I meant..."we are now expected to understand that this D means that if he sat the actual final exam now, he'd get a A..."

oh dear oh dear - I am confused!ConfusedConfused

OP posts:
tuilamum · 04/12/2015 15:23

You are confused, you got it right the first time, if he sat the exam now he'd get a D but with nearly two years left of the course by the time he actually does the exam, his mark now indicates he will be an A by then.

titchy · 04/12/2015 15:30

OK I was wrong - sorry my only experience is of sciences.

But you've just said 'we are now expected to understand.....' No, you're not expected to just know as if by magic, but your ds knows and he explained it to you. You are expected to trust your child, and it sounds and if both you and your dh need to do just that.

You could both start with apologizing to him. Poor kid - once he's left home you won't see him for dust if you continue to hound him.

museumum · 04/12/2015 15:43

No. It means he's good enough now for a D. He'll improve as he learns more, they expect he'll improve to an A by the time of the actual exam.

Original poster
justgoandgetalife · 04/12/2015 15:57

titchy - you are spot on - an apology is exactly what he will be getting from me. I need to give him far more credit for his understanding.

As for some PPs suggestions that we 'lay off' him - we are learning that too! It seems like such an alien world now and we don't understand how it works any more, but really, we shouldn't actually need to, and we don't need to waste so much of our time fretting about it.

CakeCake - nearest I could find to an image of 'humble pie'!

OP posts:
HocusCrocus · 04/12/2015 15:59

Hurrah for DS!

though who thought this was a good way of marking papers needs a stiff word as far as I'm concerned

Right, I'm in danger of boring myself here, let alone you Grin but if this is the type of exam I am thinking of it is a sensible and valid way of marking it. It's nothing to do with the dark ages, it is because in this specific kind of history exam you can't find a text which would not need the full range of skills he will be taught over the course (or at least many of them) in the same way that you could leave , say, ox-bow lakes or hanging valleys (ages self) out of a geography exam because they haven't covered it.
I'm not a history teacher but I think I am on the right lines here.

So at current course and speed and how he has absorbed what he has been taught so far, and the aptitude he is showing, if he continues in the same vein, his tutor can see him progressing to an A. Which is good.

Big pat on the back for DS.

HocusCrocus · 04/12/2015 16:03

an apology is exactly what he will be getting from me.

Good for you. And even if you have to work his jaw for him see if you can get DH to do it too Wink The boy done well.

ClancyMoped · 04/12/2015 16:40

Fair play OP Flowers it's such a tricky thing this parenting lark. You just can't get it right all the time and as soon as you think you've mastered something some other issue crops up.
16/17/18 is a funny age and it's hard to know how to treat them sometimes. I found it hard not to nag them but with mine it was definitely best not too. It meant that we maitained a good relationship and I'm sure I had more influence on them by talking to them as adults rather than kids. It's all about communication isn't it?

It's hard to let them make their own decisions sometimes when you feel that you would do things differently but at some point you have to accept that it is up to them how they live their lives. I'm not talking about their behaviour at home - I'd still complain if they left the kitchen in mess or whatever but They should be making their own decisions about things like Uni stuff etc.

Don't be too hard on yourself OP, A levels are stressful for parents too Confused

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