Not in the Oxbridge group

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

DD2's college have decided that to be in the group that gets to go on Oxbridge open days, access early help with planning an application etc, a student needs to have at least 7 A*s.

Is this a bit harsh? My DD has less but obtained at a school in special measures. I would expect her to get three As at A level; her A*s were in the subjects she is taking. I would have liked her to at least give an Oxbridge application a bash.

Presumably there has to be a cut-off, and they should be basing it on previous stats of students successful in Oxbridge applications. Why not ask them for the rationale?
Would be waste of the student's time to go to open days etc if she does not have a realistic chance based on the data.

Is she wants a bash, she should go to the college organisers and state her case. A call to Oxford and Cambridge admissions to support her argument and to double check their requirements for her area of interest would be good too.

Don't you do it - she needs to show them she is of Oxford/Cambridge calibre.

Have you looked a the entry reqs for the course she wants to do?
Lots of inof on uni websites and on The Student Room to see what grades succeed. Probably at least 1 A* at A2.

How many A*s did she get?

I am more familiar with a uni that is just under Oxbridge in most people's lists... and have to say that in the subject I am most familiar (sorry being so hedgey!!) the kids are applying with a whole raft of As. It's more a case of maybe dropping one or two s to an A than getting only a handful of *s.

So while I wouldn't discount your DD getting into Oxbridge - for all I know she is completely brilliant at her chosen subject - I wouldn't say the school is being too harsh. If she is really keen for Oxbridge, then I would hope if she asked she would be allowed to access the help and going to the days (though presumably she can go to the open days whatever the school says, just not on the school bus or whatever the arrangements are?). But it's always good to be realistic about what is involved in getting into the top unis, so as to plan appropriately and not end up with a load of rejections.

Ds's school had the same policy- if you really wanted to try for Oxbridge then you could make a case but the head of sixth form told them that in his experience applications from students with fewer than 7A*s were seldom successful

Hmm okay, maybe we need that reality check.

She got 4A*s, 7As. She did a fair degree of self directed study for those: no Maths or Chemistry teacher to speak of for the last year, dodgy teaching in a couple of other subjects.

She is doing A levels in the subjects she got her A*s in apart from one, (Politics). She is interested in Classics or Classical Studies, which seem to be the least competitive of Oxbridge choices in terms of applicants to offers. She has a longstanding passion for all things Roman and Greek.

Slightly concerned now by what MissShun has said.

Does she have Latin or Greek GCSE?
Although the 'competition' may seem less than other subjects there are still more stronger applicants than there are places, so it is not that they accept weaker candidates, just that there are not as many applying.

So is she at a different place now from where she did her GCSEs?

I went to Oxford on 3A* and 6A but it was 2004.
I don't see the harm in trying - she should chat to the college and say she wants to apply.

I would expect her to get three As at A level; her As were in the subjects she is taking. I would have liked her to at least give an Oxbridge application a bash.*

She started AS a few weeks ago, presumably? How can you expect her to get 3As based on a few weeks study? Many people with A/A at GCSE get substantially lower grades at AS/A2; A at GCSE doesn't mean she is necessarily going to get As or above.

BTW 3 As is nowhere near enough for Oxbridge nowadays anyhow: even for courses which give 3A offers, those who receive the offers are typically predicted a number of A stars. 3As would be a fairly standard offer for most top 10/20 universities these days.

Even if she doesn't join the group, there would be nothing to stop your daughter going to Oxbridge open days off her own bat. But I agree with previous posters that her GCSE grades would be on the low end for successful Oxbridge applicants (even taking into account circumstances).

Yes she has Latin at A*. She has moved to a new college where they don't offer Latin A level, but we have checked and it's not a prerequisite to do Classics. Presumably efforts at studying it off her own bat would be a good idea though.

Oh well, I suppose she just needs to focus on her ASs, make those as good as they can be.

Fair enough on the grades Disq I am basing my prediction on DD1 who got 2As 6Bs and a couple of Cs at GCSE and got an A and 2Bs at A level, which seems broadly comparable.

I am surprised at the negativity on here. A bright child from a state school that is in special measures who still obtained a number of A and A grades should absolutely be encouraged to apply. If she got A at gcse subject she may very well be brilliant at it and also get an A* at A level.

OP the Latin A* is a bonus even tho' not a prerequisite ( they would never fill the courses if they restricted it to people with Latin A level).

I se a lot of students with A* across the board in the state schools I teach in assuming that it will continue to be an easy ride theron-in.. AS is a big shock to many of them - it is an entirely different way of working, and those that shine at GCSE often perform poorly at AS. In some cases it is a wake-up call and they then go hell for leather and do well at A2.
Unis will use contextual evidence (eg postcode) to call some people for interview who would not have made the cut on pure results, but the student still has to make the A2 grades.

I agree mrsultra - AS is a massive step and badly handled by a lot of the students I teach even if they did well. Nevertheless there are a number of students who do convert their A*s at gcse into A at AS level and OPs daughter could well be one of these!

I'm surprised at the negativity here too, also the rigid approach of the school. The original school was in special measure here! No proper chemistry or maths teaching for a year! Tinkly if she wants a go then I'd give it a go - and I wouldn't even call it a long shot - they're dead keen to broaden entry into Classics and I would think that an applicant from a school in special measures getting 4A*/ 7A would be taken very seriously indeed. I wouldn't attempt to join in the 'Oxbridge Group' either. If the school has that sort of approach then it probably adds little of value, or just churns out stale advice when in fact your DD would be better off reading the Oxford or Cambridge websites. They really give excellent, up to date advice, unlike some schools. She really doesn't need the support of the school, she just needs to keep on doing whatever it is she's already done to produce that excellent set of results in a very poor school.

At my dc's school someone got into Oxford with ABB this year. Similar circumstances.

What has your dc got to lose? If she wants to give it a shot she still has 4 other options to fall back on. She just needs to consider it a long shot.

I think she shouldn't be discouraged at all. Perhaps she could contact her preferred Oxbridge colleges and subject tutors herself and ask how she would access help or advice, and if she could arrange a visit to discuss any possibilities.

Even if they don't let her into the group she can still apply, there is a ton of information about the best things to do etc that she can get from other sources. My DS is at Oxford, he didn't get any sort of special help from his school so you can go it alone!

Also, sometimes schools don't know best, and their knowledge might be outdated, so you might be better off looking into it yourselves and following the websites/admission departments instructions.

She can give it a bash with her grades no problem, she has nothing to lose!

Whilst those grades would be low-ish for some other subjects, the Classics departments at both universities are very keen to widen access.

I wouldn't rule out an application, though obviously OP's DD will have a better idea when she gets her AS results (unless her A levels are de coupled?).

She should look at the Sutton trust courses for next summer as she seems a great candidate. This may well give her more of a benefit than the school anyway - who often seem to be out of date.

My ds school show a really quite shocking graph correlating an A grade at GCSE and the grade at AS. Makes you realise why many schools want an A* to do the A level (I always thought this was overkill). But this is for children who have been well taught for GCSE, so if they aren't getting the grades are either idle or just not bright enough.

Since your dd wasn't well taught and clearly isn't idle (and is bright) I would say the normal predictions from GCSE to AS/A2 probably don't apply. Encourage her to research all her options.

I'd have hoped that any admissions tutor worth their salt would be somewhat more impressed by a student who'd got those sort of results in a failing school and then had the passion and gumption to apply without their sixth form's help. If she's already rather used to self-directed study she may indeed do very well at AS/A2.