University Admissions - I'm willing to answer any questions!

[MrsBright]

I have worked in Uni Admissions at several different Unis, RG and non-RG, for over 20 years and am very happy to answer any general questions about UCAS/Offers/F&I Decisions/Clearing/Adjustment etc.

From the UCAS website I think you need to put them all on I'm afraid.

Link

It's compulsory to declare absolutely everything GoingOffFishing but frankly I wouldn't think any of the unis you mention (or indeed any uni) would give a damn, given her very good GCSEs. She does need to put it in but doesn't need to worry about it.

oddboots thanks for the link. And response from littleham
Oh crap then, silly girl she thought it says only declare GCSE and AS grade, so felt BTEC can be swept under the carpet and accidentally (conveniently forgotten in her case ) . She should have tried to drop out of the BTEC course would have saved her from declaring it.

Thanks molio well the girl is getting worried it look bad

LotusLight - I certainly put the fear of God into my DSSs about maxing out on every single exam, always!

DSS1 is interviewing next week for his first "major" internship at a big name firm and has been briefed that he will spend the first half of his interviews talking through his university courses, what he learned and how he did...

Fishing you can't be committed to everything. She's got great results by any standards, she'll be fine (it's not medicine is it?!).

Bonsoir at some places for some subjects they do their first year exams in the second term and then nothing until all nine exams in the final weeks of third year. Lots of them have barely settled in by term two and are far from getting their heads properly down. I'm not convinced those marks make or break a deal. The reference from tutors is key - lots of very talented students have blips and a bum exam or exams. I think most sane people recruiting can look at the whole picture - no student with lots to offer should get defeated by a single three hour paper; top places can be more forgiving than that. Not that it's not worth trying of course, but no need to feel the sky's fallen in with a couple of average or less than average results - that simply piles on the pressure and won't determine offers, ultimately.

Incidentally I bet the same sort of people get recruited to the same sort of places as years ago even though years ago one could hide a few dodgy marks behind the final grade - none of this every module thing then. Just as well .

I don't know. I won top prizes and a university scholarship even in my first year at university. It mattered then and matters now for some but by no means all jobs. Daughter 2 did a resit in the summer holiday after year 1 of university and that one module (which was fine when resat) has not held her back however so it probably just depends. I do think though children should know that the on going marks can be relevant or asked for. I am not sure if universities ask for exact marks but someone who gets an A with almost full marks might well get a good bit of credit compared to someone with only just an A.

molionot med but mathematics she wants to be London based. Think shes being overly worried that these types of uni will nit pick, look at every minute detail and leave no stone unturned?? Her BTEC was is sports shes not sporty. I can't see them being that perfinicky. She says she can't exactly mention on PS that her pass grade was due to school forcing her to take it, school won't be too impressed. Thanks anyways

Some universities insist on AS module marks Lotus and others in effect 'strongly suggest' that an applicant submits them. None of my DC have ever submitted their exact marks (if only because the UCAS application form is far tidier and the headline grades more punchy, in a sense, with less detail). Where any of them have scored 100% the school tends to flag that up in the reference (but not always, annoyingly) and there's usually a bit of a gloss where the mark isn't that stellar.

Love the way you say someone 'with only just an A' Lotus. These As are really very hard to come by, especially in the humanities. And especially in ordinary state schools. I don't think one should underrate what's required. As DS2 says: a goal is a goal (he's good at glib presentation).

I'm not so sure about university scholarships. A number of my contemporaries in the merchant bank and the MC firm I worked in had them, but most didn't. But no doubt we all had something which made the geezers picking us think we were worth a punt. I didn't have a scholarship and you did. We both got places. That's pretty much what I'm saying. Stellar module marks help, institution helps, glowing reference helps - but clearly nothing on it's own is essential; it's the whole caboodle, just like it always was.

Fishing the school advice sounds pretty poor but really, truly, honestly and especially for maths and especially at those types of institution a dodgy BTEC in sports won't matter two figs. I'm sure the academic mathematicians or those who read maths or parents of those reading maths will back me up here. She mustn't worry - it would be a distraction and complete waste of energy. She'll be judged on her maths, not her BTEC in sport.

Lotus but you've said that you went to uni very young and were also very studious and not a party girl, which is fine - but I'm not sure that's the experience my DC would have wanted/ would want, or one that I'd have wanted/ would want for them. Personally, I'd have loathed going to university aged 17 spending most of my university years in a library. And although not having enough money can make people unhappy, I'm yet to be convinced that £100k after five years post grad can make one happy. As the current MN mantra appears to go - more than one way to skin a cat. Admittedly you do seem to have achieved a great balance of enjoying what you do as well as racking up the money but for a lot of people there's a lot of meandering to be done to find their own balance, which may very well not replicate yours. That said, all credit, because I'm fairly in awe.

Oh - I'd have loved university at 17! And I was a terrible, lazy student who did rather less well at undergrad than expected.

We can't generalize (which I think is molio's point).

But, fishing, I do think her results sound very good. I know a couple of London-based mathematician academics, and from what I remember them saying previously, I don't see they would worry about this. I understand (and do take this with a pinch of salt because it's not my subject) that universities often accept mathematicians may not be good all-rounders, because excellence in other subjects is not so directly relevant.

Yes, I loved the subject, really good three years but I also did things like tours abroad with the chamber choir, Federation of Young Conservatives, did a lot of piano lessons, violin lessons, a hiking group too occasionally, two choirs, an orchestra, contributions to student magazines, moots, voluntary work in law centre. I think it was a fully balanced life. The fact I chose not to get drunk nor stay up late is neither here nor there.

(Yes I have never said on here that a £100k salary is the route to happiness. I spend a lot of time writing about what creates happiness and it's things like enough sleep, avoiding things which give you a high and then a crash, having good healthy whole food, exercise, sunshine and even singing because of the effect on the lungs and breath (never mind sex). All these things increase seratonin levels and beta endorphins. However you can have all those plus earn quite a bit as a woman so it makes sense to go for both and I have never hidden that my son whose degree was in ancient history is currently a very happy post man (you are outside all day, up early so in bed early, and moving round and lifting heavy weights and getting out of breath which are some of the preconditions for being happy)... Mind you he might as well have left school at 14 really for that job..... We joke the main qualification which has stood him in good stead was passing his driving licence at 17.

OP. I would be inclined to leave the BTEC off. I know you are supposed to put everything down but no one would be expecting to see a BTEC on her list so it don't be missed!

Maths is not an over-subscribed subject and very few universities are currently selecting students rather than making offers to those who look likely to achieve the required (high) grades. E.g. even Warwick offers to all those who look likely to achieve the required grades and STEP.

In London UCL and Imperial would be considered the strongest for maths. Imperial is one of the few maths courses selecting while (I believe) UCL is offering to almost all those who will get the required (high) grades and STEP (A*AA + STEP etc). So for the latter a pass at BTEC would be utterly irrelevant - a strong clutch of GCSEs and AS grades, plus the right predicted grades would be needed. Imperial selects on maths aptitude, not performance on a BTEC. Many applicants to Imperial take MAT although it is not required, STEP can be offered instead. A good performance on MAT would make the BTEC grade irrelevant; a bad performance on MAT would not be compensated even by perfect GCSE scores.

KCL is another very good place for maths but since it is not top six it is not able to be very selective about maths students. Any student predicted A*AAcwould expect an offer from them.

It's very dangerous to leave something off the UCAS form. You are unlikely to be caught but if you are (because e.g. an admissions tutor knows your school always do BTECs in that subject, the admissions tutor went to your school!) your offers are invalid as you have violated your UCAS contract.

Maths isn't oversubscribed but the admissions requirements are often higher than equivalent courses at equivilant universities so the applicants are self-selecting (iykwim)

There has been a 5% increase in mathematical science applicants this year (as of March 24th). 2015 UCAS applicant figures INFO here.

There has been a 5% increase in applicants this year, yes. This should be mostly compensated by the growth in places, though: outside the very top places maths departments are often under pressure from above to take more students if they can fill extra places without dropping entry requirements.

The total number of entrants (not applicants) increased by around 1% in the 2013/2014 cycle. However, the Russell Group maths departments increased the number of places they had available significantly (slightly more than the increased number of students) so getting in for maths wasn't any harder. (Arguably it was rather easier than it would have been a few years earlier.)

My impression is that the growth in applicants this year is not at the very top end, so getting into the top courses shouldn't be particularly harder. I.e. they are more applicants but the pool of top applicants is roughly the same size as last year. I would be curious to know if this is what other maths academics are experiencing too.

Fishing - your DD should include it but it will be irrelevant in the scheme of things. My DD1 has applied this year for a competitive science based course and declared the pass she got for a Btec in performing arts. It was never mentioned at interview and had no impact on her application. AS levels, predicted grades and personal statements are they key things as long as they meet the Gcse requirements. She got all her offers ....and now needs to get the grades!

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts and links on this, dd attends a comp that is one these sport specialist schools so they all have to do either BTEC sport or GCSE P.E . Well its a nightmare if child has no interest in sports. Think dd is being too overly worried, and anxious, she says BTEC sport wasn't hard to get good grade in, it was more box ticking exercise and relentless work load, she would have had to submit a extra 12 pieces of work to get to get a merit grade. But because dd was doing AS maths in GCSE year she didn't have time to do them, maths took a lot of hours of practice. Her BTEC is equivalent of 2 C's in GCSEs she thinks its going to look negative on her if she wants to go to those competitive uni's just makes her look like she didn't put enough effort in to get higher grade so reflect on her work ethics and commitments. Ive told her no one can be good at everything! Is unrealistic. Anyhow I've taken the time to explain to her eveyones very valid, make sense feedbacks, even Iam convinced its not going to make a blind bit of difference, but try convincing her is something else! I need to use a different tactic. I am so not looking forward later this year when she does apply to uni. I think she will have to declare it, the school will make her I bet anyways even if she don't want to. The wait for offers will be hell I'm so not looking forward

spinoaoh and don't get me started on step paper's! Gawd the school say they are having problems finding teacher to teach it so looks like looking for a specialist maths tutor for that bit. DH teaches engineering so think he might be able too help?? Well he says he can?? Not sure teaching own sibling is easier then teaching other kids. They were fine with AS stuff but steps is completely different hoping they don't get irrate with each other.

I am really nervous about the STEP paper. My DS is likely to be applying for maths, and I have heard horror stories on other threads about - really not looking forward to that.

It is really not necessary to tutor for STEP: students should be able to work through papers and their solutions by themselves and tutoring is not believed to change scores significantly. (If students can't work through STEP papers on their own it probably doesn't bode well for a maths degree - STEP is much closer to undergraduate maths than AS/A2.)

Very few places actually insist on STEP. Others just encourage STEP by offering discounts on A2 grades if STEP is offered. Even if aiming for the top places, it's a good idea to consider as insurance a place that doesn't insist on STEP.

STEP is a pain: the dates clash with the French bac and so French DC cannot apply to universities that require STEP.

What would she be applying for at LSE? Maths with economics? It is quite competitive and they won't interview so her PS needs to be spot on. FWIW I don't think they will be remotely interested in a sports BBC. But they will almost certainly ask for AS UMS grades. These need to be good.

Fishing -- how about a throwaway line about it in the PS? I'm thinking' Although sport is not my thing, [or 'my interests are strongly academic' if you want to be swankier!], I do try to keep fit and found that taking a basic-level sports BTec helped to balance the academic side.'