UEA or Exeter for History?

[boatashore]

My DD is torturing me herself trying to decide between UEA (History) and Exeter (History and International Relations). Does anyone have any words of wisdom? We live abroad, so visiting isn't possible. She likes the look of both courses equally. The added wrinkle is that the UEA offer is unconditional if she firms, and DD suffers from an anxiety disorder that sometimes leaves her paralyzed in exams. Taking the pressure off exams is hugely appealing, though the Exeter offer should be well within her reach. All thoughts very welcome!

DD1 certainly wasn't aware of a lot of people going home for the weekend. Her friends were from all over the place though.

My DD is just completing her last year at UEA studying history. The course if really flexible so you can follow your own interests, and you can specialize if you want, or not. You can also choose courses which are assessed rather than examined.
She has also really benefited from 1to1 mentoring throughout her three years - because she too suffered from bad anxiety. She got DSA support for anxiety, which brought the mentoring with it. Having someone who know her well, and who is there for her, has been incredibly helpful. But you would presumably get this at any university if you apply for DSA in advance.
So really, go for which one she prefers, but make sure to apply for DSA.

NiceCardigan, thanks for the extra information. DD has been so focused on university entry choosing the right course and place that I don't think either of us had thought much about what happens if she has any hiccups two years into the programme. It's good to know UEA's tutor system worked well for your DD1. It's important. I have friends whose kids have run into problems at other universities and had absolutely no support from their departments. DD has heard from other students that the UEA history department is welcoming and supportive. Not sure if she has managed to get any intelligence on Exeter.

iseenodust, thanks for the tip. I get the sense that UEA students like hanging out in Norwich these days, but I could be wrong. DD does have doting grandparents in London and friends who plan to study there next year, so she could also join the exodus if there is one.

Hi Goldmandra. Do you know what pastoral care is offered by Exeter? How strange that the UEA course for your DD wasn't accredited. What was the course? I haven't heard of that before. It must have been quite a shock to find that out at an offer holders' day!

Copperas the flexibility of the UEA degree is one of the things that appeals to DD. What is DSA support? DD has listed anxiety on her UCAS form, so the universities are aware, but I'm not clear what services are available. With DD, the anxiety is episodic so sometimes she is perfectly fine, and sometimes she is not.

It is worth noting, Stonecircle, that in 2013 Exeter was in 9th place on the university leaugue table for admitting the most independently educated pupils. It was close, in percentage terms, to Newcastle and Durham but more diverse than some other obvious universities. This does not mean to say any good student will not be offered a place there, and will not find like minded friends, but 33% of the students are ex independent school. That is more than one single hall of residence. It therefore does have a different "feel" in comparison to some other universities that would be nearer the bottom of the list.

It therefore does have a different "feel" in comparison to some other universities that would be nearer the bottom of the list

You write this as if it's fact. Are you a student there? Any university in this country which asks for high A level grades will have a higher proportion of independently-educated students, because socio-economic advantage buys educational advantage which generally (theoretically) also buys educational attainment. The Sutton Trust estimates at least one grade at A level ...

I think that this is a situation where either choice will be the right one. They're both excellent universities generally.

Your point here:
DD has been so focused on university entry choosing the right course and place that I don't think either of us had thought much about what happens if she has any hiccups two years into the programme

might be worth thinking about more generally in terms of roaming each university's website for student activities -- look at the Student Union (or equivalent, sometimes it's called a Student Guild) for extra-curricular stuff. Ditto Sports Centre.

Has she had a good look at each Department's website? What are the core compulsory modules each year? How are they assessed? In your DD's case, she might want to consider whether one or other Department eschews a lot of unseen examinations? What sort of options are made available?

Options aren't always available each year -- but a larger Department has more capacity for covering staff absence (research leave, other duties, teaching priorities elsewhere etc etc).

And so on ...

But she's in a great position of having two excellent opportunities. Neither will be a bad choice.

There's always the Phoebe-from-Friends way -- take a choice away: without warning,just say "Well of course you can't go to Exeter/UEA" See what the instinctive gut reaction is.

So are you saying then UptheChimney, that universitites with a very high proportion of independently educated students do not have any differences from those with a very low proportion of independently educated students? If this is the case, why do the top ten university in this table attract such a disproportionally higher number of independently educated students? Why is it that these students want to go there? It is not all about grades because lots of state educated pupils get top grades too....

Of course I am not a student there, but I know lots of young people who have been and I know why they chose to go there and not to Coventry, UEA or Essex, for example. It is just one factor to consider when making university choices but it should never be an over-riding factor. However, for some, it would be, sadly. My DN cannot imagine herself at a university with lots of posh people. She has been brainwashed to think these types of university and people are not for her. I think that is awful.

Does attending an independent really equate to 'posh'? DS has, for the last ten years, played in a rugby team whose members go to schools ranging from the local (failing) comp, the local grammar, the super-selective local grammar and to independents. I cannot imagine a closer group of boys - they socialise and even go on holiday together. I agree Milly - it really is awful that your DN feels she cannot mix with some people because she thinks they are 'posh' - whatever that means.

The whole uni stat on indie-educated background is useless for a relatively small course like history, the actual one-yr intake could vary hugely from the whole-uni average.

If we go back to the OP's question: the choice is between two very similar universities in terns of status & BS league tables etc etc

So to bring Coventry as not the same as Exeter or UEA, actually -- is a complete red herring.

But I'm just questioning the way some posters present their anecdotes as fact.

Meant to add: anecdotes, personal experience, information from family experience and so on, are very useful in giving others ideas & impressions -- the Student Room offers this from the student perspective, for example.

But don't present these anecdotes as fact

Why International Relations, what does that mean with a History degree, anyway? And how would that lead onto medicine, I wonder? I could see IR working with Law, and where overseas are you?

Dunno about Exeter but there's a heavy international, esp. Chinese representation, among students on UEA campus.

But don't present these anecdotes as fact

Totally agree

Do you know what pastoral care is offered by Exeter? How strange that the UEA course for your DD wasn't accredited.

When we looked round, the student guide listed several different ways they are active in seeking out students and offering support and good at picking up problems early on to prevent them escalating. I don't want to go into too much detail because, TBH, after visiting five unis, I'm apt to mix them up rather. Suffice to say that I came away from Exeter with a strong gut feeling that DD1 would be quite nurtured there.

I don't know any further details about the lack of accreditation of the course other than that was a biomedical science course, although they all seem to have slightly different names, and DD1 left as soon as they were told they would have to do some sort of top up at a different uni to get the degree accredited.

I used the term "so I have heard" in my original post. This is clearly, therefore, not a statement of fact, it is hearsay. Other people can trash the league table I quoted but then they are stating their opinion as fact. There are many posters on this topic that post anecdotes and personal views but do not state them as fact. If you are all getting at me, then I think you need to read, fully, what I wrote. Stonecircle knows why I mentioned Coventry. It refers back to an earlier thread!!!! I feel that a website established for Mums to discuss elements of their child's education should be just that - a discussion forum. Why is it that only people posting alleged "facts" are allowed to post? This is not the spirit of the site and reduces it to an self appointed "expert" forum. So it is pointless for some of us to join in. Is that what you all want?

This is not directed at UptheChimney at all but much more generally, but I agree with Millymollymama that there are certain posters who insist on prefacing their posts with their very important roles in university life and then being all expert about every last facet of university life and dismissing the views of others who might simply not be declaring their hand (on the grounds of privacy or because they aren't quite so pleased with themselves). Millymollymama might be a VC for all we know. There's no obligation on MN to post how important or unimportant one is, and I for one tend to be a bit dubious about those who bang on about their status. And often generalizing across universities and subjects to the point of getting things wrong. If posters want to be self important they should at least get their facts correct or have the humility to be corrected without having a meltdown or going into attack mode.

My niece graduated from Exeter last year. I can say categorically that her friends all appeared to be decidedly posh, and were studying a variety of subjects (overwhelmingly arts though, not science). They had all the trappings of considerable wealth and all in all it made me pretty glad that none of my DC have gone there, because some of the behaviour was grim. I'm aware that that's a massive generalization from one particular group in one particular year, and I've no axe to grind - I'm extremely fond of my niece.

Molio - it is indeed a massive generalisation, but at least one that is based on experience, albeit second-hand!

I think the issue is that most people posting do so either with experience of one of the universities or else they qualify their comments with phrases such as 'possibly' or 'in my opinion'. I accept Milly that you did use the phrase, 'so I have heard' in one of your posts, but that is the only time I can see on this thread that you have done so. But you make other statements such as "there is less high competition for this degree" or "Exeter is the best option" as if they are facts not opinions.

I think it is hugely important for those who work in universities to state this up front - then we know how much store to set by their very helpful comments. I also value the opinions of other posters, especially those of people like Milly who have been through the process and clearly know a lot about it. I just feel uncomfortable when opinion is presented as fact.

Which anecdote on this thread was presented as fact?

If OP's Dd were mine then I would suggest listing everything in favour or against each one & sort them into some kind of order, maybe based on what's an important versus a trivial reason. Sometimes you're surprised, when you write it all out, how the evidence actually stacks up in favour or against.

@ Goldmandra: re the un-accredited biomed course... was this for autumn 2014 entry? Suspect I know the backstory and if so, it's irrelevant to history degree

Molio (and all) -- I'm sorry if simply stating that I'm a senior academic comes across as self-important. It's not meant to be. I'm trained to state the evidence for the accuracy or pedigree of my views. And part of that evidence is fairly extensive professional experience in a number of universities in 2 countries, either as HoD, Admissions Tutor, External Examiner, QAA reviewer, and so on ... it's part of what academics do, that students rarely see, and parents of students see even less of. 25 years of working in a field, and progressing up the ladder, does have the effect of cumulative knowledge.

I think that what might be happening here is that university professionals answer as university professionals, and that might have a different tone or register, from parents talking about their children? No-one forces us to post here, so it might be seen as a generous sharing of our knowledge, rather than status scoring?

Although re status, yes, I am quite "important" in my department & field (although that's not a term an academic would use: I guess we'd say "respected" or "influential."). I've worked bluddy hard to be so, but I'm only "important" because I'm darn good at my job. And I'm good at my job, because it's a vocation & I love it (mostly), and I'm very committed to it, to the extent that I like helping others by trying to share my experience. And I think it's only fair ethical etc, to state what that experience is, within the bounds of protecting my privacy.

UptheChimney as I said, my comments really weren't directed at you. You don't have that self important manner - even if you are important . I really did mean it to be more general. But there seems to be an assumption by the self confessed academics that no-one else who posts can have any other experience other than as a parent, which of course doesn't follow at all.

I love Exeter as a city - it's small but lovely. Wish I'd studied there - live near now though.

Just read a bit more of the thread - students are mixed so from a huge variety of backgrounds. I really think the experience above just shows the friends that specific student made.

Molio Your niece's experience was just her experience though. My childhood best friend's daughter (my goddaughter) is a first year at Exeter, reading (as it happens) history, and all her friends are decidedly not posh, much like her. This is undoubtedly because she is living in the cheapest halls there are and has gravitated towards people like her rather than people unlike her. I know from my own direct experience that many students at Exeter are indeed dead posh. But I don't think non posh students there are an endangered species, given my goddaughter's experience. I suspect that choosing a university based on an anticipated financial/economic profile of the student body is an imprecise science.

I went to Exeter and loved it! It was a great university and the countryside is fab!

Absolutely, Gently Benevolent, hence my caveat. I think this whole thing about rah/ not so rah/ not in the least rah is a distraction from looking at more critical things since it must be the case that most normally sociable students can find like congenial friends wherever. That said, this (large) crowd did appear to be distinctly rich and quite boorish. They can't all be like that though, it just wouldn't compute.