oxford/Cambridge/Durham/lse

[MommyOfATeen]

Hi
Dd is interested in studying law and then wants a career in politics.
She has being researching lately about alevels and what's best to choose as she will be entering for cheltenham ladies college scholarship exam.
Dd has being researching the law courses and can't seem to answer these questions she has
Why should you study law
What qualities are best suited to law
What books/articles can she read to read around law
And finally..
The colleges at Oxford does it matter which one you go to?

A former classmate of mine from uni is now a junior minister. We studied philosophy and then she joined the military. She was very active in politics early on and president of the student union. She campaigned for a very long time before getting elected but has risen very quickly in her party's ranks.

Those of you who do not normally look at Secondary Education, have a look at "dreamgirls". There was a hot topic started by dreamgirls about how to ensure your child over achieves. We now have a potential scholarship at CLC, Law at Oxford, (but DD does not know why she wants to study law), a career in politics and more. Sounds familiar to me, and worrying!

How can a child 'over achieve'?

I'm very glad that my kids meander.

I suppose the advice given can only be ever as good as the question asked.

The question/s asked seem.s to be, 'How can I help my daughter who I think is incredibly clever and who thinks she is clever and whose teachers think she is clever and who wants to do something important but she doesn't know what though possibly she might want to be a Government Minister in a department of her choice, and she also wants to get scholarship to the best known independent girls school and, while I'm here I'd also like some advice about all the elite universities.'

As always on Mumsnet people have been generous sharing their personal, specialist knowledge - which might even be of some use.

But the whole situation seems very vague. It's more common for people to post in a slightly more targeted way.

Thing is host if the world of elite education, law, politics etc is beyond your own experience, it can seem overwhelming.

Coupled with the fact that these things have their own mythologies, their own language etc they can seem very 'other'. Entrance can feel like a mystery.

I take the point. On the other hand if the daughter is being privately educated at institutions which have years of experience in steering able children towards well-regarded degree courses and then on into various professions, she should be getting appropriate feedback from teachers there - even if parents feel they don't have much relevant experience of their own.

It's not like the situation - which you sometimes hear of - about children who think they'd really, really like to do medicine, but haven't really talked about this at school or college, and their parents just said 'Yes, dear' - and the kids have no chance because they've opted for Biology, Geography and English A-level.

(NB re wanting to be a politician, I do feel nostalgic for the days when politicians were more representative of the electorate. They did everyday jobs and gained political experience via activism.)

Hi
Maybe 2/3 students a year go to Oxford from her school. I know why it seems vague but I don't know anything about what she wants to go into and it is educating me aswell as her. It is very overwhelming this whole experience, my dads family have plenty of lawyers and medics but my dad has unfortunately passed and the rest of his family live in Nigeria who I have no contact with. I'm very overwhelmed and Ive recieved some great books and info on here,dd has gone into town today and is going to buy the book someone upthread recommended by HK.

OP entrance to law really has very, very few myths. The only one of note is this idea that a non law degree will hinder a hopeful, but it won't (and never has done in fact). Lawyers at the sharp end are inevitably going to be political creatures so equally inevitably quite a few go into politics - especially from the Bar, where the ability to combine the two careers is somewhat easier. Your DD doesn't need to do anything special, she simply needs to keep on doing what she's doing and pick up any books that take her fancy. To be honest, when she feels ready, I'd advise her to go onto a decent academic bookseller's website and look at the synopses of books which might appeal. There are lots of 'standard' books which lots of aspiring law students read, but some are quite dull. On the other hand shortish introductions to particular areas of law might spark an interest, which she could then pursue. My DDs did that. Both of my law DDs also played the part of lawyer in the Magistrates' and Bar Mock Trials run by The Citizenship Foundation but those are for state schools only. CLC might have a mooting society though, which it would be good to get involved in (no idea about CLC though, I'm simply trying to think of an indie equivalent). It's worth saying that the fees for the Bar course are horrendous - c.£17,500 in London this year - although loans will be introduced from next year. But even so - £17,500 .

It's so expensive I know molio I've started saving for her uni fund for living as the places she would like to go are expensive places to live. I've started researching into the costs without her knowing so I'm not adding pessure or anything so that she does have a little money as it will be very costly and she will come out with heavy debts.

It may be sensible to just choose her best 4 subjects for the scholarship for CLC, the ones she is most likely to do well in and can talk about with enthusiasm and knowledge at interview. DD2 sat entrance exams for boarding at sixth form (not at CLC though) and they said they would be flexible if she wanted to change after GCSE results.
DH studied law at Oxford with A levels in Physics, Chemistry and Maths, not that I'd recommend that but anything is possible!
As I understand it, your DD is in year 10, while it is absolutely brilliant that she has passion and ambition, the most important thing at her age is not choosing specific unis but making sure she gets great GCSEs (work balanced with plenty of rest and recreation so she doesn't burn out) so that she keeps her options open. :)

I think there's a balance to be struck between being supportive (Being a sounding board when they want to talk. Finding out a little bit of background info, so you have a sense of whether what they're telling you is realistic. Knowing the kind of guidance that's available via schools.) and being over-involved.(Steering them too hard. Getting so stressed out, you're really not much help.)

There are loads of choices ahead, and while there a few career paths - medicine, veterinary science spring to mind - where appropriate A-level choices, early work experience etc are crucial, most other roads are still open at this stage.

Absolutely agree with cathyandclaire.

If she really wants to do law, then I suggest that she finds a local court and goes along to some hearings. That will show you what the majority of barristers do.

For politics and the parliamentary end, look at the Westminster sites ( or devolved nations equivalent) and read Hansard.

There is currently a preponderance of people who read PPE or Economics in govt, though that could have changed by her time. Fwiw, David Cameron was a PR man, who read PPE, BoJo a journo who read Classics, Michael Gove a Times journo who read English. Harriet Harman a lawyer.

Some people go into the civil service then politics. Goodman ( Helen?) Is one.

Law is a good all round degree. Atm there is an over supply of trained solicitors and barristers. And the changes to legal aid make it harder at the criminal side.

She needs to keep her options open.
If not CLC, then what?

molio I know you like to turn every thread into an argument and then play the injured party. I can't imagine your motivation but many if us have noticed it.

But the reality is there are myths surrounding selective universities, law, politics, finance etc.

They're often wrong ( that being common with myths) but they do exist.

Every day on MN you here stuff about Oxvridge which is wrong. Firmly held beliefs too.

And when I'm visiting schools I hear so much stuff that myth de-bunking is as much a part if the job as anything.

It's very easy for middle class people with a clear understanding of how things work to minimise how confusing and sometimes off putting it might be.

Old skool here too.

The beauty of a Law degree in a previous century was that it gave one the skills to construct a fantastically persuasive, handwritten begging letter to the L(E?)A in pursuit of funds for Bar School.

£17,500? Goodness.

For alevels she nearly firm on what she wants to do she just wants to see what she gets in her french gcse.
For alevels she wants to do history,government and politics,english literature and maths or french
She loves history and it reflects in her grades the same as her english.

Come on Word, give it a break. I think one can be allowed to express contrary opinion where yours seems wrong (as it does very occasionally) without you getting huffy. You get huffy very quickly if someone's opinion differs. Anyhow, there's supposed to be discussion on these threads; they're not purely for people to magnanimously give their views and advice - a discussion allows different views to be tested, it's not personal (well, not for me anyhow :)).

ZeroFunDame the LAs used to dish out the fees as a matter of course didn't they? Did you have to request? Perhaps you're much younger. But yes, absolutely, it's a vast amount of money - it's cheaper to go to an out of London provider, but the London ones are the ones most sought after, so they hike up the fees.

Also, I can't offhand think of any other myths about law specifically though Word - what would you say they are? I just don't think they exist, and I'm pretty current.

But on the subject of myths surrounding Oxbridge I completely agree, including your point about sometimes dodgy advice peddled right here on the Education threads.

Molio - Yes, I'm struggling to remember but I think it was the maintenance grant that needed pleading for.

Re the high fees: worth bearing in mind that pupils in my dh's chambers are paid a starting salary of £45,000. A London set. In my dh's day, he paid his pupil master £100 !

Thanks for all the advice

Is that right gonegrey?! Wow! So it's no longer the case that the big financial rewards at the Bar come later in the career. I still thought that it was trainee solicitors who got the healthy starting salary, but clearly times have changed.
Hefty fees though indeed for the Bar exams. Though both DS's friends have won scholarships from an Inns of Court which cover most (all?). Horrific to fund without one I would have thought.

I'm now wondering what the final solictors exam

Sorry posted too soon on phone...wondering what cost of LPC (solicitors final exam) by way of comparison. Surely not that high...
Back to thread - DS read PPE at uni and is now doing the law conversion - for both his PPE personal statement and particularly for his vac scheme/training contract applications he found his volunteering for a couple of months in his local constituency office provided useful experience - dealing with constituents/ researching issues/ drafting letters for the MP to send.

I'm no expert at all in law but if your daughter is considering Cambridge as well as Oxford then she should have a look at Trinity Hall. It's a small college (NOT Trinity College) but is considered the 'lawyers' college' for its law specialisation/library etc. At one fairly recent point virtually all the Law Lords were TH alumni. That said, I don't disagree at all that any good degree from any top university will stand her in good stead.

For politics, as much volunteering as possible is very important. The youngish MPs I know were very active as students with the result that they were given their first (usually unwinnable) seats to fight in their twenties. There's an awful lot of grunt work to be done in politics so not usually any problem in finding someone looking for assistance, especially for free.

Your daughter sounds very bright and ambitious but both law and a political career can be accessed without the sort of planning you're doing right now. The best thing she can do is spent Year 12 looking at courses that interest her at a variety of universities and see where she thinks she'd feel most comfortable.

I don't think a law degree makes a difference, as many have said. Certainly not of you want to be a solicitor. I was a solicitor in a magic circle firm and didn't know anything about law at all until I had even finished uni. I left uni, applied for a training contract and went from there. So don't stress about reading up loads in advance. A lot of people who study law don't go on to be lawyers by the way, studying law is very dry, not nearly so interesting as actually practicing law! Oxford and Cambridge are obviously preferable for any job, sorry but that's just the way it is. I didn't go to either of those but to one of the next best ones and it does help with jobs. Employers need to be able to distinguish between candidates, even more so now that it's so easy to get A grades at GCSE and A level. A good uni helps them distinguish.