oxford/Cambridge/Durham/lse

[MommyOfATeen]

Hi
Dd is interested in studying law and then wants a career in politics.
She has being researching lately about alevels and what's best to choose as she will be entering for cheltenham ladies college scholarship exam.
Dd has being researching the law courses and can't seem to answer these questions she has
Why should you study law
What qualities are best suited to law
What books/articles can she read to read around law
And finally..
The colleges at Oxford does it matter which one you go to?

I'm from the uk,North Yorkshire to be precise.i didn't go to university. After May dd is going to begin preparing for a scholarship. I'm not being a pushy parent however I work in a school and I do see many children leaving things till last minute and not doing enough things to maximise their potential. Dd school urges pupils to read extra and read around their subjects to prepare and enrich their interests for uni. I'm not a pushy parent I am really proud of dd and will support any decisions she decides. Oxford pressurizes many students and I am in no hurry to burden with this pessure before she has even gotten to university. I have found my solutions dd will carry on keeping an interest in the news and current affairs.

I am trying to articulate why I feel uneasy. Obviously part of being a good parent is encouraging one's children's development. It's about supporting their ambitions - but also when they are quite young - trying to provide a bit of a reality check too.

It's pretty hard succeeding as a lawyer. Training contracts for solicitors are hard to come by. Pupillages are hard to get. Often the financial side of things involves racking up a very significant debt. See www.lawcareers.net/Barristers/finances

Then there's the really important question about why people want to do law. Just because at the top end it's well-paid? Because it's seen as clever and powerful? Or might it be because you actually have a passion for justice?

Then there's the question of not really wanting to be a lawyer but to 'go into politics.' Michael Gove is mentioned as a role model. He is loathed by teachers. It's like saying you want to be a person who goes round wrecking a system, of which you have relatively limited knowledge or experience, on ideological grounds.

If a young person cares about education why not become a teacher? An educational psychologist?

It all sounds rather naive to me. As if there's a vision about entering elitist institutions and being admired and highly visible.

Isn't it more important for a young person to get some experience of life, and spend a bit more time working out their own strengths and values?

Dd has done work experience in a lawyer's office and knows what it is about and is keen to follow her dream. She isn't doing it for the money she is interested by law and politics and has a geniune passion for law and politics. Her teachers have also picked up on this as they have noticed it and told me at parents evening. Dd is interested by politics and law and is open minded and she may or may not decide at sixh form that she wants to stick to law and law only or stick to politics. She may still want to attempt both. She is very open minded and it is about trying to keep her options open. She doesn't want to be an educational psychology as it doesn't interest her these are questions I have raised if she is interested in educational politics then what about other jobs considering education and she has researched and they are not for her

OP I studied law at Oxbridge. So did my DH.

I now teach there (though not law incidentally).

What I would say is that we, as in those that work there, don't pressure anyone. However, many students place themselves under undue pressure. Also, the way we work (short terms, many tutorials, lots of written work) is intense.

That said, lots of students are very happy here and doing lots of cool stuff besides their studies. Our music, drama, sport, politics etc are thriving and the bars are full .

With regards to a law degree, I would say that it is a very good grounding for many careers, including politics. It really does test analytical skills to the max.

That said, you don't have to have a law degree to go into the law. There used to be some snobbery against those who didn't, but it certainly isn't the case any longer (except perhaps an individual bias - yes, DH, I'm looking at you). There's a joke that the History department at Oxford has some of the most devoted historians in the land, until they graduate and all go to work in City law firms .

It's probably a matter of personalities, as much as anything

My partner has practised both as a solictor and a barrister. My daughter - who is enjoying her study of Politics at A-level will be going on to studypolitics at university - and also did work experience at a barrister's Chambers.

To be honest, if she told me that she wanted to go into politics and become like Michael Gove, I would a) be absolutely horrified and b) laugh at her.

(Though I am actually quite a supportive, encouraging parent. Honestly.)

As for politics, well, if she's serious, then she needs to understand how things work. Both on a macro scale (parliament, courts, administration etc) but also on a how-it-is scale.

If she's interested in party politics, as in she wants to be an MP, then she could do a lot worse than get involved in the youth section of her chosen party.

2 senior law people of my acquaintance were both fellow historians at Oxford theWordFactory! But equally most of the lawyers in my year are all still lawyers of various kinds.

TheWord
Dd biology teacher worked for Oxford dd mentioned that she's heard from sixth formers and TSR Oxford is a place where pessure is everything and her teacher said the students put it on themselves,her biology teacher is really supporting dd and helping her look at the right materials etc..
Dd has being looking at doing maybe a language or philosophy degree and likes some history courses at some other uni's some however focus more on medieval history and she doesn't like early history she prefers modern history. the boys housemaster at her school has a wife who has a history degree and did s law conversion to be a lawyer.

I can definitely recommend some reading for her. I did half a law degree (jurisprudence) at oxford but dropped out due to pregnancy.

the books I found a particular joy to read were

The Rule of Law, Tom Bingham
Eve was Framed, Baroness Helena Kennedy
and Just Law, also by the Baroness.

Helena Kennedy is particularly inspiring from a political point of view as she is very involved in human rights and liberty. Bingham is particularly good for really cementing in the mind just WHY our legal system is the envy of the rest of the world, which might help answer your dd's questions.

and incidentally, I don't think it matters one jot what college you apply to. it's the brand you're buying into. I would say pay close attention to the number of undergrads each college accepts each year, as for some it will be a very small number as most of their intake is postgrad.

DH would say that if you know you want to be a lawyer, why not study law and get the best grounding.

But he's Old Skool. And I very much doubt he would turn down a good applicant with a history degree from Oxbridge when push came to shove.

An MFL degree would be a tough road, though. Four years undergrad, two in law school. Long and potentially very expensive (if she couldn't secure some funding).

Have you looked at the Inner Temple Pegasus access scheme?
Plenty of barristers coming from state schools now though with stellar Oxbridge degrees and Harvard/saved the world in gap year.

I should add that I think the books I have suggested are eminently suitable for a person your dd's age. very readable and if her passion is genuine I think they'll arm her with all she needs to articulate her love of law succinctly.

Another book by a doyenne of civil liberties;

Dispatches From the Dark Side by Gareth Peirce.

She and HK are extraordinary women.

baroness HK is my actual hero.

and if OP's dd finds her as inspiring as I do, she could apply to Mansfield College, Ox where she is principle?

Wow!
Thankyou theword dd has being campaigning with a sixth former for her chosen party who she supports. She goes to school council and boarders council. She reads a lot of books and keeps up to date with the news
lily
She's at a private school
She doesnt want to be the next Micheal gove she does want to do a similar role but not be like Micheal gove

Can I also mention another prominent female barrister, Dinah Rose? There was an article about her recently in the Guardian. She acted for that newspaper in the Prince Charles case in the Supreme Court last month.

It's worth pointing out to your DD that whilst MG was education secretary for a while, he's been ousted.

That's politics for ya. No one really gets to choose which area they'd like to work in. You get what you get. And most MPs are just that. Very few make it to cabinet which is as much about alliances and internal politics as anything else.

If she's interested in education specifically , she could do worse than aim for high level civil service in that department.

She knows I showed her this and she said but mum Micheal gove isn't the head of the education department no more,haha she knows more about politics then myself and told me who I should be voting for. Many areas of politics interest her she just has stronger views for education.
In all honesty I don't know why anyone would want to go into politics its a messy business and I was brought up believing they rob Peter to pay Paul...

I would expect a youngster of her age to have education as a special interest .

What does she yet know of work and pensions? Or fisheries?.

It may be that she loses her desire to get into party politics as she learns the grubby truth about who gets on and who doesn't etc.

But who knows?

Baroness HK was, until recently, the President of SOAS. Has she considered the joint Law and Politics degree there?

Who knows? She may later discover things about politics that she dislikes and decides politics isn't for her...
Pensions she knows that people are having to work longer to have more security for when they retire and the strain of the ageing population on the Nhs and welfare state. Fishing she knows about the eu controlling where England can fish and has done some work in geography on the topic.

Dd has spotted it on the website,slug

Dd has being looking at doing maybe a language or philosophy degree and likes some history courses at some other uni's some however focus more on medieval history and she doesn't like early history she prefers modern history.

It sounds as though her interests are very wide really - which is what one would expect at that age. I imagine choosing A-level subjects, and then discovering which particularly interest her and play to her strengths, will help her forward.

If any child of mine told me what political party I should be voting for, I would be very tempted indeed to commit an unspeakable assault against them with piece of smoked fish.

host
She doesn't mean it in a way of you should she shares her views with me. She has wide varied interests which is a good thing. She will need to consider her alevel options soon after her end of year mocks as she is going to be sitting some scholarship exams at different schools

Word there was no bias against those with non law degrees in the olden days ('80's), none whatsoever. Nor before that either. Just check out the background of any number of Law Lords operating back then, and now. It's fine to read law and it's fine not to. Personally I enjoyed academic law and am with your DH on this, but there's no bias either way and never has been. As I said earlier, it's swings and roundabouts and those recruiting can make a good case for either, as you'd expect :)