History of art at university

[sittingherebymyfire]

My DS want to study history of art at university. Has any ones DC done it? Where? And why did they chose the university/course.
He's currently considering UCL, Courtauld and Glasgow.

So many replies.
He's looked at Edinburgh ticks the city box but from reading this he interprets it as an MGL is rather surpassingly not an option which is a shame. I don't know if anyone else reads it/knows differently?

MFL not MGL!
MissLivvy thanks for the info it's great your DD is happy at UCL.

I would tend to agree about the language taking precedence at Edinburgh. By the way, adding a language and a year abroad takes a Scottish degree to 5 years. Any degree with a year abroad, other than Scotland, is 4 years. Does your DS do Italian A level? If not, lots of universities will accommodate this ab initio but not all languages are offered ab initio, ie no A level in the target language. Bristol University is about 50/50 language/hoa but you obviously have to do quite a lot of language study if you are ab initio. Doing a term abroad is not long enough. You do need the year. It can be a wonderful year though.

Sadly no MFL at A level by the time he realised he wanted to study history of art it was too late to drop 1-2 of his science A levels and change to an MFL/Latin.
Which is a bloody shame because he's a natural linguist with A*'s in his MFL IGCSEs.
The problems of being made to make choices at an early age!

sitting the link you show (once I had fixed it to make it work for me!) shows that modern languages are an option for first and second year. There are two HoA courses in each year and then an outside course to choose, which includes all modern languages taught there ( "Schedule G"). Almost all degree programmes there have two compulsory courses in first and second year with a more or less free choice of the third, that is the "Scottish Model" of HE.
Taking joint honours in HoA and an MFL would mean studying roughly equal amounts of each, which would reduce the history of art content. Most courses also incorporate the possibility of an exchange year abroad without increasing the length of the degree.

Sorry, I should have said I was talking about Edinburgh there!

OP - your ds is obviously a natural linguist and could easily take up Italian ab initio at University. My dd is in her fifth term after starting from scratch and is now virtually fluent in Italian, helped by doing a 2 week intensive course in Lucca last summer. HofA and Italian go so well together, so your ds should not be daunted by the prospect of starting this combination as an undergraduate, particularly given his deep interest in, and enthusiasm for, HofA. The Italian MFL modules often have a HofA dimension too.

Thanks glad you can interpret Edinburgh's info,that good news as he likes Edinburgh very much.

I'm an art history grad, I adored it. I

Went to York in 2005 (blimey I'm old!) In hindsight I'd pick Cambridge, York, Edinburgh or Leeds if he wants to be out of London, Courtauld or UCL if he wants to be in London.

If I had to give one piece of advice it would be - pick a course which is HEAVILY seminar-based (I know Cambridge and York are) as it is by far the most interesting and best way to really learn and discuss new things.

Art History's really, really not about looking at Rubens and saying 'isn't that nice' any more than English lit is about reading Jane Austen and saying 'isn't that nice'. It's challenging, stimulating and thought-provoking. My dissertation was on Victorian Fetishisation of childhood - about as 'un-naice' as it gets, but fascinating. A well-taught course is intellectually and academically rigorous in the same way that English Lit is - in fact it has far more in common with this than any other subject.

Essex is also good for art history - I have several friends from undergrad there who are now doing PhDs/postdocs

The employment stats are illuminating - at Courtauld, there's low unemployment but high rates of people working in non graduate jobs unistats.ac.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007761FT-BAHA_A_BAHA/ReturnTo/Search

However, in general if someone goes to a decent uni, gets relevant work experience either during term time or the holidays, engages with the uni careers service and gets a 2:1, then they will usually be entirely employable.

ivory perhaps reflecting that the people who chose such a specialist institution are absolutely focused on a career in art and probably making the tea in some gallery or art restorers or saleroom or arts related ngo?

That fact just gets back to the fact that plenty of people who study History of Art do not actually need to make a living! As I said earlier......

Millymollymandy As I understand it the Courtauld attracts a lot of students from overseas, especially the EU, and those who are really single minded about a career in art, rather than the sort of student who wants the type of social scene they will find at Edinburgh, and doesn't need to work. Perhaps more the sort who is willing to make sacrifices and live on the breadline getting paid work experience of any sort, working on Reception, selling tickets or even the café just to be in that environment in the hope they can be in a position to gain an opportunity to make a living in it? Just as actors will take any job in the world of theatre other than on the stage. That, aside from the ones who went into other fields of graduate employment, is the sort of Art History graduate I am most familiar with, wherever they went, often after studying Hof A because they became disenchanted with what was on offer at Art School after the Foundation year, but still wanting to be in that world. Some are ending end up in more lucrative jobs, with an amazing breadth of opportunities, artistic and management / policy but few are in it to make a fortune anyway.

You cannot live off those sort of wages in London unless someone else is paying your bills! You just cannot. How on earth can you pay rent in London, or even travel into London, if you sell tickets or work in a cafe for a living? These wages are rock bottom and it is not about making sacrifices, it is about parents helping you out. I know a few young actors. All are living at home with parents. They are not making enough money to pay rent! They barely make enough money to eat! Ditto the musicians.

Milly so are you saying that if your DC wanted to study H of A because they were absolutely passionate about art and derived a huge amount of satisfaction from it that you would still strongly discourage them from doing it and encourage them to do something that would lead to a more lucrative career like accountancy?
That is of course a practical stance I agree but I feel that my DC would struggle or drop out of Uni if he wasn't doing something that he loved.

Milly so it is not possible to live off the wage you earn as a receptionist or in a cafe?

Sittinghere - of course your DS should opt for the degree that allows him to study, in depth, a subject he is interested in. History of Art is as "academic" and rigorous a degree course as any other. A degree in history or geography or chemistry does not lead to a particular career ( very few degree courses do) so I'm not sure why there are so many comments along these lines. The two History of Art graduates of my DC's friends are working in accountancy and in magazine publishing. The one who has just started her degree at Oxford plans to go into law. Meanwhile all three of them LOVED/LOVE their course and will presumably have a life long interest in art and be able to use their knowledge enjoying art in years to come.

Most graduate jobs are for and degree subject, people should study what they think they will be interested in. I see plenty of miserable engineering students who thought they could do five years studying something they were not that inspired by to get the big salary at the end. Let me assure you that is not going to be a happy five years for anybody. They also forgot that that big salary would be for doing something they were not interested in for potentially the rest of their lives.

Any degree subject. Why can I only spot typos after pressing post?

St. Andrews history of art dept is closely linked to their museun and galleries studies dept.

I would encourage any passionate 18 year old to study History of Art at the Courtauld. There are plenty of lucrative careers in the art world.

I've namechanged for this so as not to out myself. I teach the subject at a university.

History of Art degrees do not only lead to careers in the art world. Art History graduates can still access careers that are open to other humanities graduates, plus many others besides. Many of our graduates do work in public and commercial galleries, museums, the heritage sector, and auction houses. But rather more go on to other kinds of careers: marketing and PR is an area we notably have many graduates going into, but others have gone into teaching, investment banking, law, diplomacy (Foreign Office), etc. It is common to have to do either a postgraduate qualification or various internships after the BA, in order to progress your career. Many public galleries now stipulate a PhD as an essential requirement for a curatorial position.

Languages are extremely useful, particularly if you wish to work in the museums and gallery sector. Many advertisements for curatorial positions stipulate that one or even two foreign languages are required. However, joint History of Art and language degrees can be tricky. There is a large drop-out on these courses at my institution (ie. over 50% of the students drop the language and switch to straight History of Art) - at the end of the day, the joint-honours students are required to attain the same language levels as those doing single-honours language, and so the workload is immense (and chances of getting a first are lower). They also end up mainly doing only the core History of Art modules and not enjoying the range of optionality that single-honours art history students have.

In terms of where to go, there is a lot of variation between departments (rather more than there is with English and History courses). For example, Essex is good for more theoretical / philosophical approaches, East Anglia includes non-Western art, Warwick has a campus in Venice where students spend a term. Also some departments have more of a visual-culture based approach, as opposed to traditional art history. Some are heavily Renaissance-based, others predominantly c20th. It's really important to look carefully at the course structure and options, because they are all very different.

milly the point I was making is that whilst you may not perceive that the sort of jobs that graduates do to fill in until they get the opportunity of a career would keep a Darling Child in the manner you think they should be accustomed to, it is self evident that plenty of people do manage to live on those wages in London. At least if you have qualifications and aspirations it hopefully isn't forever.

It's great if you have parents living in London or a Bank of Mum and Dad that keeps giving after you graduate but most do not.

I know plenty of DCs who are using their initiative to make do with imperfect jobs and imperfect accommodation, cheap flats in grotty areas (which is what my DD has thoroughly enjoyed doing for the four years she has been at uni in London), sharing rooms, house / flat sitting, sleeping on floors, even living with the Hari Krishnas (who are so busy they are about to open a house for women as well), whilst working on achieving their longer term aspirations.

And I have an actor friend who, aside from the usual stints on the Bill etc. has been doing that for over thirty years now, he always says he will give up on getting his big break next year, apparently there is a big demand for the silver haired..............

Albrect that's very helpful we're intending on visiting some universities next term. His love of art is eclectic anything from cave painting, Caravaghio to Dali he is passionate about it all.
Both the Courtauld and UCL ask you to study a language in your first year without making it joint honours degree which one if the things that interests him.