Oxbridge 2015 #2

[Molio]

Continuing Roisin's thread.

I've even succumbed to TSR, having sworn I wouldn't. Still no news here and haven't heard of news from any other source in the same subject at the same college but being very uncool tbh as the reality is that rejection after an interview would be much kinder for DS than a no ab initio. Massively cheered by a late afternoon offer from Bristol though. I thought I was chilled, I'm clearly not .

Fingers crossed for everyone still waiting and hoping. It's very hard to see them disappointed, is the problem :(

Bloody hell sassy, your poor dd :( You have to wonder why some people choose the jobs they do.

Thank you for your replies. It seems churlish to complain because she knows that she has been offered a wonderful opportunity. DD has also just told me that her history teacher said she thinks DD will get bored of Law when she gets to Uni!
This is the same teacher that sent her to Villiers Park on a Law course as she said DD had a flair for Law.
Its all very odd. DD has said she just wants to keep her head down and work her socks off for the remainder of her time at school.
I think DD is more upset because she doesn't understand why this has happened.
Lots of hugs and chocolate are on the menu tonight.

Oh that was pure spite.
DS came across this kind of thing when he expressed a wish to go to Cambridge. Not for the likes of us said his head teacher.
When he was offered a place there was no comment.

I do hope your DD can ignore it and not feel uncomfortable in class. It is founded on .

That sounds really unpleasant and unprofessional. I worked in a state secondary school for 8 years and I have to say I witnessed some unprofessional behaviours from staff regarding comments about students; some teachers relish the challenge of teaching very able children, but others find it intimidating and feel threatened by it, or feel it's their role to "bring them down a peg or two".

Ds1's mentor for Oxbridge entry commented on how humble and self-deprecating he is and how he doesn't realise how good he is. However, another teacher clearly thinks he's a bit cocky.

Hope your dd is able to shrug it off and forget about it; and concentrate on working hard.

Sassy it is really positive that you have such a good relationship with your DD that she can share this with you so that you can support her.
Echo what the others say - some teachers do have difficulty with students who are of her calibre - she has the perfect attitude - keep working steadily, and she will prevail!

I'd be inclined to report the incident - possibly in writing - to the Head of Sixth Form. Sometimes children don't want a fuss made about problems at school, but it is always possible to make it clear that you want this dealt with in a confidential fashion without her being further distressed.Teachers should be supporting students and not undermining them.

Just in case it helps here is a story. No two stories about what happened when I was offered a place at Cambridge. he first involves my English teacher. I was a bright but sometimes argumentative student. She had said she wasn't going to give us practice for a particular type of exam question because she felt it was a harder question and we should just opt for an easier alternative option that would be provided. I said that seemed wrong. Surely if there was going to be a hard question we should get more preparation - not none at all? She became very annoyed and said that when I went to Cambridge, I would have 'the corners sharpened off me.' I remember thinking she'd got this wrong in her indignation and said that the corners would be rubbed off instead. But didn't point this out. (In those days you did a separate entrance exam, and so my offer from Cambridge was 2 E-grades.)

I didn't really mind about the teacher. It was small stuff. But I did mind about my Dad.

Immediately after my offer I had very excited because I fell for the place at interview. So I talked to my father about how I was not only pleased about the course, but that I believed this might make it easier to get a good job later on. My father didn't really reply but afterwards I heard him talking to my mother. He clearly felt that I was being boastful and said - in an angry, resentful tone - that if he and my mother hadn't sent me to the secondary school I attended I would never have got a place.

This anger, which I didn't fully understand at the time, related to his own childhood. He was brought up by his father's sister - and believed that if he had gone to the 'better' school where his father lived he would have had greater educational opportunities. He was a university teacher but had got stuck in his career and believed that he deserved better.

The sense of resentment toward me over this matter was clearly a lasting one. Over three years he never once drove me to Cambridge at the start of term or visited me or fetched me at the end of term. He said this was because Cambridge was too far from the city in the North West where we lived. (However he drove one of my brothers to Edinburgh and visited the other at Aberdeen.)

I did not invite him to my graduation.

I think all you can say to your daughter is that some adults - who should know a great deal better - have experienced disappointments and/or lack of opportunities in their life, and occasionally this results in their acting in an uncalled-for manner because something or someone reawakens that unresolved pain. . It's their 'stuff'. Nothing she has done and it will pass. The really important people are the ones who are happy for her.

I am grateful for the support on here and I have shown DD all your positive comments.
Marianne I think you may of hit the nail on the head there. It must of been terrible to deal with that resentment from one your own parents

Sassy and Marianne, those are just horrible stories

I think that some adults feel resentful at the infinite possibilities and opportunities that our teenagers have, with their whole futures ahead of them. We've come across it a little with drama/music teachers who maybe feel disappointed in where they've ended up.

I think all our DC are only too aware of the grade pressure ( oh how I long for the matriculation offer you got Marianne) and a little less sniping and a bit more support and assistance from their teachers would go along way to helping them achieve their potential, it looks good for the school to have pupils going to Oxbridge.

That is outrageous sassy - your poor dd. Does sound like jealousy and insecurity on the part of the teachers.

Sadly I witnessed a teacher recently saying that state school pupils would fail if they went to Oxbridge as they wouldn't have the same confidence etc as privately educated pupils... I think her views were partly due to sour grapes due to some personal experience but also lack of aspiration for her pupils.

Sassy, am so so sad that your DD has been treated this way. I agree with Marianne that you should think about reporting it; this is no way for a teacher to behave. They should be delighted at her achievement and be proud for her and the school. The next child who has to deal with this sort of behaviour may not be as mature as your DD nor have as supportive a relationship with her mum.
And as to the issue of making the grades, I think every one of our children is well aware of what they must do between now and the summer and that nothing can be taken for granted. What they've achieved so far, in getting an offer, is enormous, and a cause for celebration in its own right, but there is still work to be done and they of all people certainly know that! They don't need it pointing out in such an unpleasant way. In my experience other parents (though intending to be well meaning!) are a problem here, not teachers! I have lost count of the number of times I have been congratulated on my DS's Cambridge place, and I have replied, thank you but he doesn't have a place yet, only an offer! No chicken counting here!

Agree with Fellfan and Marianne in principle but if your DD is anything like my DC they'd go nuts if I suggested reporting and I couldn't do it without them saying ok. A good time to do it might be after she's got her results and secured her offer, then you could be quite outspoken. I think the problem is that with teachers like that, they could get nasty, which will make things really hard for your DD over the next few months and might very well throw her off course.

Same as Fellfan. I've only ever had congratulations re Oxford in RL, both from parents and teachers. People at least to my face couldn't have been nicer or more pleased on the DCs' behalf.

Molio I suggested to DD about having a discreet word and she has made me promise not to say anything, she is adamant that she doesn't want me to say a word. I do however like your suggestion of giving my frank opinion to all involved on results day!
DD text me and said her french teacher has made another spiteful comment this morning. French is probably her weaker subject out of the four A levels she is doing. They were doing a comprehension exercise and DD was keeping up but slightly slower than the other students and teacher said "keep up my goodness you are supposed to be going to Cambridge, maybe you better stay up here with us".
DD has said that other students have said how pathetic the teachers have been and she is receiving plenty of support from her friends.

I suppose for me the question - sometimes - is whether it's the adult's call no the child's to raise something with the school.

My daughter has been talking about some poor teaching she's getting this year and asked me not to pass her comments onto the school. I said on this occasion I wouldn't. It's one of those grey areas. The teachers not doing anything unprofessional, but the lessons are clearly very uninspired and in my view and my daughter's - more suited to a younger age group. (My daughter and her mates are planning to revise on their own. Fortunately there is a second teacher who is considerably more able.)

But on other occasions - a very few - I've gone behind her back and done what I thought was right. Are one or two teachers creating a culture where children won't dare to aim high because in that case they will get picked on? What effect will that have on other children who, like your daughter, might want to attempt something out of their comfort zone?

The previous comments could be rationalised away (or excused to a HT) as being a rather grumpy "don't rest on your laurels", but keep up my goodness you are supposed to be going to Cambridge, maybe you better stay up here with us is just bitchy and I can't see how anyone could see it otherwise. I'd really want to say something at this point :( Hugs to you and your dd, sassy.

Hi, can I just ask if any of you with children who now hold offers, are finding that you son or daughter is actually quite ambivalent about the choices that now lie ahead.

Or is it more - oh terrific, now 'all' I have to do is get the grades? And they are definitely intending to put Oxford/Cambridge down as their firm offer with UCAS....

DS will definitely firm , but I have noticed that , now the initial happiness of the offer has worn off a bit , he's more nervous about "all" he has to do is get the grades. Particularly because (unwisely chosen or otherwise) his other options will need the same (or indeed higher) grades.

Marianne- yes, definitely. ds1 is still waiting for St Andrews. He has an offer holders' day booked at York for half term, but now isn't sure he wants to make the journey. I would like him to go, so that he makes an informed and enthusiastic choice for his insurance offer, to lessen the disappointment if he doesn't make his Oxford offer.

That said, his Oxford offer is pretty generous, he's working hard and he's allegedly on track to considerably exceed his offer; so I guess he's justified in not being too focused on his back-up options.

Thanks. I think my daughter's situation is slightly unusual. Or her response to the situation is.

She was very pleased and surprised to get her offer - though as she'd completed written off the idea that a place might be possible - it also caused a bit of an upheaval to her thinking.

She's finding other peoples assumptions that of course she will go - if she gets the grades - a bit overwhelming. Plus the comments about her being lucky, fortunate etc.

Some of the comment have been at her school. Quite a lot of people applied and some of the people where were considered to be relatively likely to get in were not offered a place. There have been rather fewer offers to Oxford and Cambridge this year than in other years, so I think the people who did get offers have perhaps received double the amount of comments and congratulations - if you see what I mean.

It's not that she isn't glad to have the choice. But having the choice is complicated - and other people's reactions and assumptions seem to be complicating things further.

I think you are right Marianne that your daughter is a bit unusual , in that I think most DCs wouldn't put themselves through the application process if they weren't pretty sure they would take up the offer if they got it. (Bear in mind though I am extrapolating from a sample set which includes precisely my DS and his friends )

What I think DS is finding hard , which is slightly different , is the congratulations which come in the form of "well done for getting in " when he is painfully aware what he has is an offer , not a place. Although of course that is true for any university.

I think that my DD was a bit like yours Marianne except that she didn't get an offer! She put herself through it partly from peer pressure and partly for the experience - and to see if she would be made an offer. Having said that she absolutely loved Cambridge when she went for the interview and said after that she would have probably taken up the offer had she been made one.

DC are all different and it is true that not all actually do take up the offer. Your DD should decide for herself and try not to be influenced by others It will be difficult for her as she will inevitably come in for a lot of peer pressure and resentment from those who didn't get an offer.

Oh, right. Sorry, misunderstood.

ds1 will definitely firm. He particularly likes the course and dept; he enjoyed Oxf when he visited for open day and he loved his three days there for interview. He came back wanting it more than ever, but not expecting an offer as the interviews were tough.

There are slight complications for me about what to say - mostly I keep my mouth shut unless asked - because I went to Cambridge when I was 18. The place will have course have changed in some respects. (More female undergraduates. IT businesses around the town etc.) But not in others. (Society at large probably more divided and unequal than in the late 70s, so privilege being reinforced rather than dismantled.)

I have a very ambivalent feeling about my time there. I benefited from the place, but was extremely unhappy at the same time. I know a lot of that was rooted in my childhood, and not really Cambridge's 'fault.'Some of that unhappiness was aggravated by the way the place was structured at the time. There are probably more coherent attempts to provide nurture and support now. And I think my daughter is more mature and balanced than I was at that age. Though I started the course just a few weeks after my eighteenth birthday - and if she goes, that will be the same for her.

Sorry - this is too much like a therapy session!

My dd has only had one offer so far (Oxford) so it's lucky she really liked it & will def firm it. She did a summer school there last year & that's what made her decide to apply.

From my perspective, I think the course there will really suit her plus the college system seems less daunting than sending her off to a strange city to share a flat with strangers.

My DD has firmed Oxford - loves the course and completely fell in I've with the city on her 3 days in December, despite being then convince she'd failed. And she got v high AS UMS which apparently makes getting her grades pretty likely (no A* needed, thank goodness.) But she still isn't taking it for granted as she's convinced herself she'll be the thickest one there (is that called imposter syndrome?) - not much we can do to change that, I fear...at least teachers aren't undermining her like the one Sassy mentioned; that would be the last straw.