Oxbridge 2015 #2

[Molio]

Continuing Roisin's thread.

I've even succumbed to TSR, having sworn I wouldn't. Still no news here and haven't heard of news from any other source in the same subject at the same college but being very uncool tbh as the reality is that rejection after an interview would be much kinder for DS than a no ab initio. Massively cheered by a late afternoon offer from Bristol though. I thought I was chilled, I'm clearly not .

Fingers crossed for everyone still waiting and hoping. It's very hard to see them disappointed, is the problem :(

GB OK, I'll stop here.

'wasnt in the know about what she was supposed to be listening to'
I remember at one point I rather naiively talked to the head of music at ds's school (who is a brilliant head of music ) about choral scholarships because DS was in the choir and played 2 instruments and was in the chamber group etc etc. The head of music gently enlightened me and pointed out that Oxford musicians are very church music orientated and ds would need to be in a church choir for a while: the school choir wouldn't be good enough. So we sensibly dropped that line of application.

So I think you do have a point listener there probably is a genre of music which Oxford musicians prefer and which they are more likely to empathise with at interviews. Its not so much the question and the answer I think you are getting at as that you think your child's answer implied she liked the 'wrong sort' of music. But I'm with other posters, a more detailed reply of 'I listen to classicfm because....' showing passion and interest and thought and analysis and knowledge of all different sorts of music could have gone down better but I'm neither an interviewer or a musician so I dont really know.

I'm nosy/curious: what was the source?

'I do' is not a very illuminating or helpful answer! And being overseas is no excuse for a lame response.

I think this has been a very supportive thread and it would be a shame if that changed. Anyone who succeeded in getting an interview was clearly a promising candidate. Most parents have reported their children saying that parts of the interview were tough. They're designed to be that way: you can't anticipate the questions as you can for, say, an A-Level. All our children will have been nervous, felt tongue-tied, and been made aware of the limits of their knowledge. Certainly my own daughter described her second interview as 'a car crash'. I think all of us can be proud of the way our children had a go, and be pretty confident that wherever they end up going they've got the ability to have a good future.

Seconded. Myth overrates Oxbridge interviews. Lots of the questions are prosaic, as are the answers, even for those who succeed. I think you're being way too harsh Livia. This is a teen responding, give her a break.

zooming back to say 'hi' to everyone.

Listener - I honestly don't think your DD made a faux pas or gave a 'wrong' answer. Don't let her beat herself up about it, the other candidate who said whatever he/she said about R3 was obviously trying to psych her out. There is nothing wrong with listening to classic fm and there is no requirement for Oxbridge educated musicians to listen to R3. I have friends who are very successful musicians and composer who went to Oxbridge colleges who never listen to R3 (and others who love it, too, to be fair). There's no pro or anti R3 or Capitak FM agenda. Your DD didn't mess up, please don't let her get the idea that she did. The fact that she had interviews at several colleges means she was a very strong candidate, I'm sure she will do brilliantly wherever she ends up.

Listener,
If this one question is preying on yours or your Dd's mind why not ask for feedback on the interview ? It may help to put it into perspective. As others have said , though, she has done extremely well to get so far.
Hocus

Since there are so many comments - mostly helpful and supportive - I would like to respond.

Thank you funnyperson for having understood what I am getting it. DD said that she didn't remember anything about the text, but I'll post again if she recalls the content. This is all coming out six weeks after the interview. It is something that she was uncomfortable about at the time but has only just shared with me.

Livia you have completely misunderstood my point, which is probably because I haven't expressed my question very well.

My question is this: given that DD had stated that Classic FM, with the implication that it is a specialist music station, ought to be considered a fairly reliable source, the follow-up comment-question from the interviewer was "But who listens to Classic FM?", expressed in a way that made DD feel humiliated, as if they had said, "Anyone who listens to Classic FM is uncultured and simple and doesn't belong here". Was this fair? I don't think so, but rather it shows a judgement on the part of the interviewer.

In this context, "Well, I do!" shows great confidence and I am proud of DD for sticking up for herself. It is the tone with which they asked the question that I am objecting to.

Thanks, Gently, Littleham, Molio and MS for your support and for allowing me to discuss this here. As a pp said it was probably not decisive but must have been one of several elements that made those two interviews think that DD would not be a good fit with that college.

We'll put it behind us. Another offer came in yesterday, which DD is thrilled about. I am on my way the other thread, via a Scottish isle.

I think the perceptions of a teenager being interviewed and the perceptions of the interviewers are two different things.

My daughter only spoke very briefly about the second interview which she described as a 'car crash'. She'd booked in for lunch at the college immediately afterwards but ended up leaving as she wanted to get out of the place, as fast as possible.

In this interview she was - after the discussion of a previously unseen text - asked about her Politics A-level syllabus and she mentioned Engels among other names/topics. Her interviewers then focused on Engels and directed a set of questions on a particularly aspect of Engels's thinking that my daughter hadn't studied. Not unnaturally she found the questions hard to answer, and at one point she explicitly stated that this wasn't an aspect of Engels's work that she knew about.

My daughter's conclusion was that the interviewers would have formed the belief that she had lied and claimed to know all about a political thinker (of whom she was entirely ignorant) in a naive and/or lazy attempt to impress them. Her firm belief was that this part of the interview meant that it was out of the question she would be offered a place.

My own sense was that the interviewers were simply taking her out of her comfort zone to see how she responded, as they would be doing with all other candidates. But my daughter didn't want to discuss it any more, and I just said, 'Oh well it was an experience. Sorry it felt like a difficult one, but I think it was an adventure worth having.'

In my daughter's case she did get offered a place. We've all got bright able children. But at 17 and 18, none of them are going to have much experience of formal interviews and the sorts of challenges which arise - and how you always emerge feeling there was an unanticipated question and/or some awkwardness aroung giving an answer. Perspective on the whole proces tends to come later with job hunting etc.

Hocus that is a good point. Certainly the overall feedback would allow me/DD to understand how close (or how far) she was. I expect that in this aspect is just a little point and of course Classic FM won't be mentioned. But if they write, "inability to discern reliability of sources", I'll know what they mean!

One of the general points here is that it is such a range of emotions that she has gone through in a short space of time due to this whole process: she has felt excited, nervous, happy, drained, and probably many others. Feeling humiliated was momentary and she is remembering that now. It is very interesting how some details are coming out weeks later.

Marianne, I think you are right, most interviews will deliberately take them out of their comfort zone and at 17-18, the capacity to self-judge how well they did is low. I am glad that your daughter got offered a place.

Listener ,
Well, she can add thrilled to that list of emotions now ! Well done on the latest
offer. Welcome to the remote Scottish isle whilst we wait for any remaining offers and exam results. The bothy (NotDunWorryin') is swept , fire lit , beds made up and comfy chairs plumped , larder full of provisions (including copious and and midge repellant). I am settling in until August.
Hocus

Hocus that all sounds so comfy and nice. I like the idea of camping down to get though the remaining assignments, revision, mocks and then the real exams.

Oxbridge is behind us, it was a great experience all round but it is over now - unless the feedback is very good, the results are high and DD wants to take a gap-year and reapply? Somehow, I cannot see all of those conditions being met.

Thanks, everyone for what has been a great thread and good luck to all the DCs and MNers still on the journey.

I think NotDunWorryin' is the name of the house where I live too! (Sadly it's near the middle of a big city, so I don't even get the pleasure of watching the sea crash down on the beach.)

By the power of MN, Marianne , you can be in two places at one time . I have given you a bedroom with a sea-view and the soothing sound of waves.

Thanks Hocus!

Listener I interview in a related subject to music (visual arts), and I can assure you that your DD's answer was not (and would not have been taken by the interviewers to be) a faux pas. The force of the question was not (and would not have been intended to be) a judgment on your DD or the listeners of Classic FM, and I'm sure the interviewers would have been horrified to hear that's how it came across.

It would have been a question designed to get the candidates thinking about the unseen text's relationship to its intended audience/readers, who the listeners and the demographic of Classic FM are, as a way of thinking about how music fits into society/where and how it is listened to and performed, what kinds of specialisations different audiences can be assumed to have etc. And I'm quite sure that your DD's answer to that would not have been a reason for her getting in or not! We ask similar questions about audiences in my field, both in interview and in the degree teaching (though I would hope we phrase it so that it's clearer that these are questions about the wider social place of the arts and music).

georgettemagritte thank you for your comment, which helps. I see that they must have been trying to get her to think about inferring something about the reliability of the text by considering who the text was aimed at. That seems perfectly fine and good interviewing, in that the questions were designed to help her think and lead her to an interesting, I guess. It is just that she didn't known anything about the profile of listeners, particularly compared with other classical music radio stations, whereas a UK-based candidate from probably would have. They must have been a bit surprised by her answers.

As you say, this part of the interview couldn't have been a decisive factor.

DD came back from school so upset today. She was lucky enough to get offered a place at Cambridge subject to her getting A*AA.
She is a shy girl and hasn't really discussed it much in school as she has a few friends who were not offered a place and even though they will be brilliant at another uni she is still aware it could be a sensitive subject.
She has discussed how lucky she feels with a couple of subject teachers but realizes it is still far from a done deal and she could still lose out if she doesn't get her required grades.
At the end of her french lesson her teacher says out loud to the whole class "sassyDD I was discussing you with another teacher and we think you shouldn't count your chickens madame."
DD was embarrassed and upset but just nodded and left the room.
Later DDs form teacher asked if she was ok as it was clear she was upset. DD told teacher what happened and the lovely form teacher told her not to worry as it was probably a careless comment and not meant.
DD then has history with the other teacher who had been discussing her with the french teacher. This teacher then says to her - "I hear your ears have been burning but I hope you are not going to be stroppy as I can talk about any student I want if I think it is relevant so there"
DD was again upset as she had not been stroppy and hadn't said a word in the lesson.
DD doesn't understand what she has done to upset these teachers, she hasn't boasted or been cocky about her offer. In fact she re reads offer letter everyday as she cant quite believe it.

Sorry about the rant and I know it is ridiculously trivial but it seems to have just diminished her excitement and made her really feel as if she is not worthy of her offer.

Some teachers are jealous of clever students.

Sassy , There are ways and ways of reminding any offer holder for any University not to be complacent , but that doesn't sound like the best one. Cambridge have decided she's worth an offer and she needs to remember that. It is very hard , and obvious , but she just needs to try to put it to one side , get her head down and focus on the exams. Easier said than done and I do sympathise . I hope she can not let it affect her too much.
Come up to the bothy (see my previous post and have a or . )
Hocus.

Sassy your DD is very worthy of her achievement.
My DD had something similar, she got a place and the 'perfect' kid didn't. My DD was aware how the other kid must have felt, but the uni counsellor was a right cow with my DD. I have to say though her teachers have been lovely and encouraging.
Unfortunately in todays world the quiet bright kids are often overlooked in favour of the loud ones, but sometimes they are the ones who achieve more. It would suggest lots of chocolates she has done brilliantly, Cambridge know what they are doing and she must have something quite special.

sassy very unpleasant for her - they sound pretty unprofessional. Poor thing, really nasty for a shy teen.