Cambridge - Son regrets applying.

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Our 17-year-old is doing A-levels at College, and has now applied for universities. He didn't originally consider appling for Oxbridge, but his teachers advised him to do it. He even went on a school trip to Oxbridge to have a look around. Anyway, he has applied, so is now waiting if he'll be invited for an interview.
The problem is that he now regrets applying. He considers it a lot of effort, especialy compared to the other universities he applied for. He especially hated writing his personal statement.
He doesn't really want to go to an interview, and I can understand that. He'd have to travel a very long time (between 6 and 7 hours if there are no train disruptions), he'll miss college and he'll have to spend at least one night, possibly two, in Cambridge, and after all that effort and spending quite a lot of money which we've actually been saving for something else, he might still get a rejection. His predicted grades are A and A* level, but he may not achieve those.
He has two offers from two of his other choice universities, which have lower entry requirements, so he's sure of a place to study anyway. He likes those two at least as much as Cambridge. He's not sure he'll fit in at Cambridge and he's afraid that the work pressure will be too much.

From what I've read I think he should be fine there, study-wise. Socially I don't know; he's not a very social person, so I suppose that'll be an issue everywhere. He is worried about the usual: that it'll be too posh for him. None of his (step) parents has gone to any university, so it's all a bit alien to us.

My son is normally very confident and relaxed, but this entire Oxbridge application stresses him more that his exams -or anything else for that matter- ever have.

Should I push him to keep applying or would it be better for him to withdraw his application?

I thought your DS didn't like his course noddy that he was questioning his decision.

...or have I mixed you up? Apologies if that's the case!

He didn't like the plac loves the course and doing really well. All his own choices though which I think has taught him something

I suppose the risk - and it could feel like a huge one - is one of rejection.

If you are someone who has succeeded in the safe, known environment of school, family, community because you are bright and capable, it may be a new thing to face the idea that a powerful, prestigious institution elsewhere can say, 'No, we don't want you.'

And I think that a young person has to summon new resources to deal with a) the possibility of that 'No.' and b) the reality of a 'No', if it happens.

NB. I think even possibility c) - a 'yes' - brings challenges!

Place He questioned uni full stop at one stage as a concept though not just for him!

He wants to get into politics? GO TO CAMBRIDGE. It's undeniable that the vast majority of MPs (particularly front benches) are Oxbridge educated. In terms of is it a better uni than Manchester - objectively yes (world rankings etc) subjectively maybe no, but he'd have to suck it and see. He could always shift unis if it didn't work for him. But in terms of is it a better place to start preparing for a career in politics? Absolutely.

Suggest he does not think too far ahead. The application itself, travelling to he interview, the interview itself are all educational experiences in themselves, as well as being able to have a go, even if you risk failure.

He will need to do the same when he applies for jobs.

This time he has a great Plan B so it does not really matter how he does, so a chance to see how far he gets. Getting an interview would be something to be proud of. Getting into the pool even more. But it really does not matter. Getting this far and having the school think he is a credible Oxbridge candidate is pretty good in the scheme of things.

DH's parents wanted him to leave school at 16, as he was offered a steady job in a bank. In sixth form, the school pushed him towards Oxford, where he got both a scholarship and an unconditional offer even though his A level results were probably not as good as some of his privately educated peers. His friendship group, some of whom he met at interview, were entirely state school educated and some have gone on to do some seriously impressive academic stuff. He did not regret going to Oxford for a moment. FWIW we would be very disappointed if private education (largely because we live in an inner city education black hole) meant that our son was unable to mix comfortably with his University peers.

If he gets a place, and only then, should he look closely at which degree he would prefer.

marriane I think by that age rejection shouldn't be a reason not to do something.

Especially as the vast majority of Oxbridge applicants will have back up offers.

Rejection, is part and parcel of life. Protecting oneself from it, or encouraging our DC to protect themselves from it, is a sure fire way to a life half lived, no?

noddy thanks for clarifying. The mistake was mine.

I think my point is that we do feel all sorts of things that we perhaps 'shouldn't' feel, and that those who are particularly successful get less experience at coping at this particular challenge (rejection) than those who routinely struggle to pass exams etc.

I think most parents, especially those who are ambitious, don't want our children to protect themselves/take the safest option.

But I think there are questions about what are the best strategies a parent can use when a young person feels a bit 'wobbly' when faced with some kind of transition.

I suppose I am not assuming he is 'wobbly' more that he has decided which is the reverse and was my own experience

I think my view would be that if you've put five universities down and one of them offers you an interview, you go. Because filling in the UCAS form and sending it off represents a kind of commitment.

Even if the unversity which wants to interview you isn't your favourite of the five, the experience of the visit and interview will give you a great deal of information. Regardless of whether of not the interview results in the offer of a place, this information can be used to inform the choice you do eventually make.

My dd is in exactly the same position & has been encouraged by her middle of the road comprehensive school to apply. The way I see it is that they have not got a lot to lose (as long as they want to give it a go & have other offers).

Our eldest has ended up at a university with a bigger intake from private school and it has been fine. Whilst dd is reasonably well off, she has made friends with someone from a more deprived school & they have not had a problem either.

"He says that he thinks it's a ridiculous that applying for Oxbridge is so much effort compared to other universities"

I have some sympathy with this view!

I have often wondered why the process is different for these two universities.

My dad convinced me to apply. He said that it costs the same amount in fees/accommodation (roughly) to go to any university, but Oxbridge opens far more doors in life. I got in, enjoyed the course, and found that he was right. I wouldn't have applied if he hadn't suggested it, and went to the interview not expecting to get in. It was well worth it though!

It's not so much that Oxford and Cambridge chose to do things differently from everybody else as that most other places have changed and they haven't. In the days when far fewer people went to university, it was very common to interview. I applied through UCCA (precursor to UCAS) in 1978. Three out of my five choices interviewed, the other two didn't. There were no open days, no offerholder days, no websites (obviously!), just the printed prospectus, which you had to write off to request. Everything was done by post.

Nowadays the vast majority of courses don't interview and so the entire thing comes down to grades (possibly assessed by a computer, not a human being) and a quick assessment of school reference and personal statement for obvious red flags. Easier for all concerned but the high dropout rate at some places indicates that not interviewing does mean some round pegs end up in square holes.

TBH, whilst I do think that the Oxbridge system of admissions is a bit over wrought (and I work there), I also think that many other universities put almost no effort into their own admissions.

Essentially, they don't care who gets a place provided they have the grades and can pay the fees.

My son had pretty extensive interviews

noddy that is a. as it should be for a sought after course, but b. increasingly unusual.

Many universities do little more than hand out a standard offer to anyone and everyone who meets the grade requirements.

I didn't apply to Oxbridge for exactly your son's reasons. I was a bit lazy, and wanted a university to spoonfeed nurture me a bit; I didn't think that I would be academic enough.

Forward 20 years and I ended up working in one of the Oxbridge Uni's. I love the whole atmosphere now, and am very envious of the students, with their way of life which still seems so much more full on than my university life was - socially, academically, everythingly! (My friend whose son has just started there too, reckons it works out cheaper as accommodation/food is very subsidised.)

If your son really wants to go into politics, he might as well go for the interview: he'll have a good chance of bumping into someone whom he might end up working with/opposite. It's also a useful life experience. Maybe he will hate it when he's there, or maybe he won't, but it's worth a look. (I think I would still have chosen not to go at 18 if I had applied - I really wasn't ready to make the most of it. But I'll never know, will I?)

Yes I know He only wanted to go to one university one course and his tutors wanted him to apply for several as is the norm as the others didn't have such a strict process and his college had never had anyone succeed. He was quite happy with the idea of not going at all which was a concern but we let him get on with it.

Not read full thread but my 2p for the OP DS- if you get invited for interview go. Then you can make a fair assessment.

Chances are you'll be rejected - lots are, and the choice will be made, without being in the slightest bit upsetting because you've already decided not to go.

Otherwise you can turn down a Cambridge place if it isn't right for you. But if you do, then you'll have really assessed things before doing that. BTW don't let relatives/teachers pressure him .

I think it is unfair to say that many other universities put almost no effort in.

Most courses at non-Oxbridge universities requiring AAA typically cannot afford to refuse AAA students but Oxbridge can. Academics would not be allowed to turn down AAA students, even if they wanted to.

Suppose 1500 students apply for Maths at Cambridge and 1500 apply to a non-Oxbridge university for maths, requiring AAA. Both have around 250 places. The difference is that most of those applying to Cambridge will put it first, so Cambridge has to select who they will give offers to and carefully judge the level of the offers, whereas the other university will typically have to fight to get 250 students at all.

Cambridge academics will put time into interviewing and selecting the students they want. Academics at the non-Oxbridge university will put in a lot of effort into admissions to get the 250 they need, at the highest level possible. This might typically involve "offer days" between November and April, in which each academic gives up a hour or two of their time once a week over 20 weeks to "interview" and meet students. In addition academics will spend a lot of time on open days, outreach etc to increase the profile of their course - this can hardly be described as "almost no effort".

In reality most Oxbridge academics are often not better or not much better in either research or teaching than academics at non-Oxbridge universities. Yet the latter have to fight very hard to get good students, with very little chance of getting the really top students. With Oxbridge admissions, the effort brings with it its own reward, as academics get the students they wanted. With non-Oxbridge admissions, a lot of effort remains unrewarded as students will go elsewhere and the academics won't get the students they would really like. I've been on both sides and I know which one I prefer.

But the effort you describe uilen is sales essentially. There is no effort made to ensure that the right people get a place.

I dunno, I hear what you're saying, but the current atmosphere of bums on seats, can only result in the ultimate devaluing of British university education.

When universities start offering unconditional offers to candidates who they haven't even seen based solely on AS levels and GCSEs, then there are bound to be problems. Inevitably you'll end up with some unsuitable candidates, and then you won't be able to fail them...so you'll tinker with the course, the exams etc.

op DS1 started at Cambridge this Autumn. At this point last year he was not wholly convinced that Cambridge was where he wanted to go. He had a moan about the onerous extra bits and pieces required in the admission process. I have to admit to not quite getting what the big deal is with filling out a pretty straightforward form for which he already had all the info, scanning and emailing his AS results, and selecting, photocopying and posting off two essays which he had already written. The mental strain and worry different kettle of fish.

However whilst the interview was tough, the course content was the best fit, and perhaps most importantly the learning style in terms of the small groups and 1:1 weekly supervision really works for him.

The travel does sound a bit of pain but your DS has nothing to lose by going should he get an invite to interview. It may confirm to him that Cambridge is really not what he wants, but then again seeing it up close and personal may make him think twice.

If all else fails the Fudge Shop opposite Kings is scrummy, salted caramel particularly recommended.

With my son it also worked in reverse as he was offered unconditional after an interview and probably would have been hit and miss with grades. SO if you have a particular skill or are the sort of person who interviews well its invaluable.