Cambridge - Son regrets applying.

[Squoink]

Our 17-year-old is doing A-levels at College, and has now applied for universities. He didn't originally consider appling for Oxbridge, but his teachers advised him to do it. He even went on a school trip to Oxbridge to have a look around. Anyway, he has applied, so is now waiting if he'll be invited for an interview.
The problem is that he now regrets applying. He considers it a lot of effort, especialy compared to the other universities he applied for. He especially hated writing his personal statement.
He doesn't really want to go to an interview, and I can understand that. He'd have to travel a very long time (between 6 and 7 hours if there are no train disruptions), he'll miss college and he'll have to spend at least one night, possibly two, in Cambridge, and after all that effort and spending quite a lot of money which we've actually been saving for something else, he might still get a rejection. His predicted grades are A and A* level, but he may not achieve those.
He has two offers from two of his other choice universities, which have lower entry requirements, so he's sure of a place to study anyway. He likes those two at least as much as Cambridge. He's not sure he'll fit in at Cambridge and he's afraid that the work pressure will be too much.

From what I've read I think he should be fine there, study-wise. Socially I don't know; he's not a very social person, so I suppose that'll be an issue everywhere. He is worried about the usual: that it'll be too posh for him. None of his (step) parents has gone to any university, so it's all a bit alien to us.

My son is normally very confident and relaxed, but this entire Oxbridge application stresses him more that his exams -or anything else for that matter- ever have.

Should I push him to keep applying or would it be better for him to withdraw his application?

Nothing wrong with him just not fancying it. At his age my dad was very keen for my to apply to Oxford, and I just didn't like the place much when I went. I don't feel I was wrong, either.

To be practical, is there anything he can find to do in Cambridge that would give him purpose for his journey? Is there anything going on that'd be quite interesting? I'm thinking of a family friend whose DD got herself into a state about going to her interview, because she felt it would be a waste of time (she was very nervous about it, which is not quite the same, I know). Her mum got her to go to the Fitzwilliam museum to look at something for her history A Level, and I think just having a reason to be in the town made it feel less bad.

Cambridge has a big academic bookshop (Heffers) which is nice to browse in - maybe that'd have something?

I agree with others about 'posh' issues and so on - I'm just trying to think how he might rationalize the trip to himself.

I don't know about Canbridge but Oxford is a truely amazing place. I would have loved to go. . I have three DC at Uni and when they discuss the advantages of different Unis they really don't like the idea of the short intense terms at Oxbridge. Going away to university is so much more to them than just the academics. The terms are short enough in non Oxbridge unis. In fact my DC often stay on in their uni towns for extra weeks during the holidays. I'm not sure, but I don't think you can do that at Oxbridge.

My DCs also seem to know a lot of Oxbridge dropouts even though the attrition rate at Oxbridge is really good I think it's because being an Oxbridge 'dropout' is more noteworthy than being a normal dropout

I agree with everybody else that the 'posh' thing is a bit of a red herring - their are plenty of other Uni's and courses which are posh. Art history anyone? . DS1 studies medicine at a non Oxbridge uni and an awful lot of his friends are from private school. I honestly don't think it makes any difference that he didn't go to private school.

Travel by coach can be considerably cheaper than travel by train. If the timing of interviews makes journeys awkward the college itself is very likely to provide accommodation.

I think lots of Russell Group Universities have a high proportion of students who were independently educated/are from monied backgrounds.

You can stay at Oxford (Cambridge too, I assume) in the vacations. You just have to apply to stay on for as little or as long as you want. You pay a little bit extra because otherwise they might rent the room out for conferences and so on. I think this happens a lot in other universities too.

The terms are 8 weeks long but there is a lot going on at the beginning and end of each term so most students are there for 9-10 weeks. Also, in many other universities the summer term has been reduced to a very short period with very little teaching - it's really just for exams. Oxford and Cambridge carry on teaching in the third term, with the exams falling later in the term. So it all comes out in the wash, I'd say.

Squoink, if your son is getting the 16-18 Bursury (and even if he's not) his college may be able to help with the travel expenses too.

Re the comment that Russell Group universities have a high percentage of students who were privately educated, perhaps that's what the statistics show but equally, the comprehensive I work at, which is in Special Measures, sent a dozen pupils to good courses at Russell Group unis this year, including Oxford.

Even if he gets an offer, it's not binding. I turned down an offer from Cambridge to go to Bristol and have never had a single regret.

I stayed at college in the vacations. It's not uncommon, though if your room is a really nice one, with en suite or very historic etc, you are moved to somewhere less palatial as yours will be occupied by people from the major firm hiring the joint.

I agree with the idea he needs to go, check it out, and talk with the students hosting. There are always some there to greet, chat with and support the applicants, and that will reassure him that normal kids go.

He's right on the work pressures, though. You need to enjoy studying, or it can be very heavy weather. Having said that some people doing arts subjects were naturally very clever indeed, and didn't do a lot while still achieving excellent results. Genuinely so, not just bravado. But the majority do work their socks off.

I'll go agaiinst the general trend here and say I think you should let him follow his gut on this one. He's giving off very clear signals of being stressed out at the mere prospect of Oxbridge and is sticking his heels in. Whether those fears are rational is another matter. I would'nt push it.

It's a tough one. On the one hand, it's his life, his decision. On the other hand, if his current feeling is largely fear of the unknown and a mistaken view of what Cambridge is really like, it would be a shame for him to back off now and miss out on an opportunity he might have really enjoyed and benefited from.

Re missing time from college - I wouldn't worry about that. If he's at the standard he must be to have applied to Cambridge, missing two days towards the end of term is not going to matter much in the great scheme of things.

If the application procedure is stressing him out then he may not enjoy the educational atmosphere there anyway.
I think you need to have a chat with him and try to narrow down what it is that concerns him. Is it the procedure and learning style, or is he a bit intimidated by the practicalities of travelling a long way and being on his own etc? (does he have a lot of experience of the latter in other contexts?)

If it's the former then I think you should leave it up to his judgement. Some people just don't suit that hyper pressurised environment. I did the Oxbridge application and it blighted my entire upper sixth year, I got so stressed out that it disrupted my learning for my actual exams and I narrowly didn't get a place, leaving me feeling like a failure. It was a horrible experience and it's a great regret that my school pushed me to do it. I wish they hadn't made it into such a big deal, then I would have been less likely to have applied in the first place.
It doesn't suit everyone and that is actually fine. Something that the pro-Oxbridge types don't usually appreciate.

Be supportive but let him decide. It's not for everyone and he would be excited if it was for him.

OP explain to your son that if he fancies politics as a career, entrance into Oxbridge is as nothing compared to the hurdles prospective MPs have to jump through .

Seriously, it's not that much faff. Ok there's an interview, but how onerous is that? Really?

Anything that involves selection in life, requires us to make the requisite effort.

noddy not necessarily. I was very unenthusiastic about the process and my offer, and even intended to turn the place down when I got my results. In the end my a level english teacher talked me into it. I went and absolutely loved it. It was just a long way outside my range of experience at the time, so I felt intimidated by it. But you don't get anywhere unless you're prepared to step out of your comfort zone.

I agree bunting

I'm involved in the widening access scheme and I can't tell you how many 'reasons' I hear for not applying, which have no foundation in reality.

IMVHO there are perfectly good reasons for not wanting to go, but not wanting to go to an interview isn't one of them.

I suppose it's the equivalent of saying you'd like a particular job but don't want to be interviewed for it.

I think nerves are very natural - and may be preferable to vast over-confidence. Young people will have less experience of being interviewed, so if this is their first experience of this kind of interaction, a wish to hide head in sands (or run for the hills) is understandable.

I'm reminded of 'We're going on a Bear Hunt.' With the interview as the hunt. (We can't go under it. We can't go over it. We have to go through it. Swishy-swashy etc etc etc.)

It's just an application. He doesn't have to go to interview. There are so many excuses, it sounds like there's something else going on.

How about a bit of reverse psychology? Next time he voices all these excuses, instead of pushing him, agree with him, and add that if he's not keen on just the application process, he probably won't like or thrive in Cambridge.

See what his response is.

Oh he should definitely go so he can judge the place for himself. He'll regret it afterwards if he doesn't. My friends daughter is in her 2 nd year at Oxford and she loves it. She went to what is considered one of the worst secondary schools in our areas, although compared to other areas it's perfectly fine. She studies politics and thoroughly enjoys all the people she has met.
You must make him go, I missed many a good opportunity as my parents were busy and kept their eye off the ball when I was too young to make the right decisive decisions.

Support him now so there are no what if's later on in his life.

I am coming from a different angle I suppose I don't believe in being talked into things and am more and more seeing an organic process in most areas of life is most successful and fulfilling.

Undervaluing and not aiming for the highest thing you can achieve is one of the things you will really regret in life.

Not trying for something because you are scared of the competition is not something that should never ever be ok. It will hit you confidence everytime and next time you will aim lower

If he genuinely hates it when there he can drop out and go elsewhere, you get one false start at uni and at least then he knows for sure

He doesn't want to be the one in 10 years saying "I could have tried for Cambridge I'm sure I had me reasons at the time but for the life of me I can't remember them now. Now I'll never know how far I could have gone"

My take - as someone whose daughter is being interviewed - is that regardless of the desirability of the course and the outcome - the whole thing will be a useful process, in terms of gaining adult skills.

My daughter's open day visits have all been done with friends via coach/train. On one she got driven but my partner went off and she did the campus tour with a mate who came along.

For her interview she'll be doing a solo journey, staying the night in accommodation provided by the university, meeting fellow interviewees and current students, as well as having a chance to talk one to one with lecturers/Fellows/Directors of studies, geting breakfast and lunch at the college, and then making her way home. Given that her intention is to become a student next autumn, I think the trip is a valuable exercise in organising herself, exercising social skills, becoming independent etc

I've found the phrase. "you can do it if you really don't want to but I feel you are making the wrong decision and if you make this decision it isn't one I can endorse"

I won't talk my children into something they don't want to do but I won't support stupid decisions either

There is no way of knowing what others will regret and one persons 'highest thing' is another's nightmare. Support is not the same as coercion and persuasion It is a great opportunity for someone who wants it.

Coffee these are your opinions not set in stone facts.

I think, as adults, we can make a decent analysis of some things that a person might regret and some they might not.

And I can't see how anyone might regret going for an interview at Cambridge. I mean what risk could there be?

I don't think he would necessarily regret the interview but may regret feeling pushed into it. He is facing one of his first choices and appears to have cone to a decision but because it is not the expected one it's seen as wrong. I am just looking at it from his perspective he may know exactly what he wants my son definitely did and although his teachers doubted his choice it worked fir him.